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  #21  
Old 01-13-2009, 11:10 AM
TriggerMan TriggerMan is offline
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Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
he whole alternate universe/timeline/reality paralell whatever is a cop-out explanation for completely disregarding everything except the names and uniform colors so JJ can do Star Trek "his way".


They are not "completely
disregarding" anything, so no.
Quote:
And no, my DVD's won't self destruct, but the events and episodes contained therein will cease to have meaning in this "New Frontier" that the movie is starting.
But will retain their meaning in their proper universe. Probably solved.

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RIGHT ON!!!
Nope.
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  #22  
Old 01-13-2009, 11:11 AM
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kevin kevin is offline
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Originally Posted by TriggerMan View Post
Yay, is it time for one of these threads again? Well here we go...
Of course it is!!! No matter what view we all have, it's no fun if there are not 150 threads all with the exact same conversation and points being raised!!

We should all know that by now!
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  #23  
Old 01-13-2009, 11:24 AM
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Jim in St. Louis Jim in St. Louis is offline
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Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
Okay. Enough.
I'm just havin fun with ya Zim!

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  #24  
Old 01-13-2009, 12:29 PM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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Originally Posted by TriggerMan View Post
So, it is no different than any other Star Trek.

Except that the continuity of what we know of the Star Trek universe is not being followed.

One word: Nope. Try again troll.
Another word: YEP.

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Originally Posted by TriggerMan View Post
They are not "completely[/color] disregarding" anything, so no.

Yes they are, so yes. They are disregarding quite a lot of established continuity and consistency. Do you not read any of the interviews. JJ himself said that he went into this movie to break the rules. And he's doing a fine job.

But will retain their meaning in their proper universe. Probably solved.

The problem is not solved. According to JJ and the rest, this movie is supposed to fit into the "proper" universe of Star Trek. But, obviously, it won't. That's when the whole alternate reality bs came into effect. Why should the whole 40+ years of Star Trek history be relegated to its own seperate universe? Why couldn't the writers come up with a story and visual designs that would fit into the existing Star Trek universe without using the time travel/alternate reality angle? It could easily have been done.
Nope.
Once again, YEP.
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  #25  
Old 01-13-2009, 01:40 PM
tejdog1 tejdog1 is offline
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Why is it hard to believe that this is the way the Enterprise always looked? Technology changes.

1960s NCC1701 = futuristic for the 60s
1960s NCC1701 = working model could probably be built if the money existed in 2009
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  #26  
Old 01-13-2009, 01:47 PM
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Scribbler Scribbler is offline
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Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
the ships doctor in Cage/Menagerie was Dr. Boyce, and in WNMHGB it was Dr. Piper. Again, no McCoy or Uhura until the Regular season of TOS.
I liked Doctor Boyce and Jeffrey Hunter's Chris Pike not to mention Number One. I suppose if the new film makers had begun in the time period of The Cage, none of the series' famous faces would be in the film other than Spock. Imagine trying to pitch Star Trek to the studio with almost totally unknown characters.

If things had been done with more adherence to early TOS episodes some of the more famous characters would have been left out (Uhura and Chekov for example). Canon lovers would have been satisfied but many fans would have been very disappointed not to see their favourites on screen.
The writers had no choice but to upset someone.
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  #27  
Old 01-13-2009, 02:00 PM
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"The problem is not solved. According to JJ and the rest, this movie is supposed to fit into the "proper" universe of Star Trek. But, obviously, it won't. That's when the whole alternate reality bs came into effect. Why should the whole 40+ years of Star Trek history be relegated to its own seperate universe? Why couldn't the writers come up with a story and visual designs that would fit into the existing Star Trek universe without using the time travel/alternate reality angle? It could easily have been done."

You're right, it could easily have been done. I do agree with you, Zim. The writers could have done just that. They chose not to do so because the movie wouldn't have appealed to decent sized audience and it wouldn't have looked like a modern film. I'm sure that when we see the movie we will see hundreds of little nods to the fans. What we won't see is a film so bogged down in forty years of continuity that it forgets to be accessible to non Star Trek experts.
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  #28  
Old 01-13-2009, 02:32 PM
TriggerMan TriggerMan is offline
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Let's see where to begin...

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Except that the continuity of what we know of the Star Trek universe is not being followed.


Some of it is, some of it isn't. Do some of you NOT understand what an alternate timeline story is or have never seen an alt. timeline episode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
Another word: YEP.
Then prove it. We already know that things changed as a result of something in the plot by Nero. So what merit is there for "saying that is an alternate universe is backpeddling?" They aren't backpeddling or trying to cover themselves, that is what is happening in the story.

Quote:
Yes they are, so yes. They are disregarding quite a lot of established continuity and consistency. Do you not read any of the interviews. JJ himself said that he went into this movie to break the rules. And he's doing a fine job.


Except there is a difference between a certain measure of what is being changed and "completely disregarding." They aren't
"completely disregarding" canon, and according to one of those interviews (yes I read them all) a lot of what some may think is a difference is actually something that could fall right into canon.

Quote:
The problem is not solved. According to JJ and the rest, this movie is supposed to fit into the "proper" universe of Star Trek.
I think that is according to you at this point...

Quote:
But, obviously, it won't. That's when the whole alternate reality bs came into effect.
No, it came into effect on the first draft of the movie script.

Quote:
Why should the whole 40+ years of Star Trek history be relegated to its own seperate universe?
You mean with any other alternate timeline?

Quote:
Why couldn't the writers come up with a story and visual designs that would fit into the existing Star Trek universe without using the time travel/alternate reality angle? It could easily have been done.
Why did they have to? They didn't. You complain way too much.
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  #29  
Old 01-13-2009, 02:55 PM
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Summer Storm Pictures Summer Storm Pictures is offline
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
...If you want no time travel and more lore, you might wanna have to change the genre
You missed my point. I concur that time travel and alternate universe ''gimmicks'' are definitely both valid element of storytelling in the ''Star Trek universe.''

What I'm suggesting that it's time to try to write some new ''soulful'' stories that don't have to rely on the ''crutch'' of time travel and alternate universes.

As far as time travel--ever since TOS episode ''City on the Edge of Forever'' storytellers have ''gone back to the well'' a few too many times I think. ''Earth-centric'' time travel was done 3 times in TOS (if memory serves) along with one ''non-Earth-centric'' time travel story as well. All were good. Each was different in its own way.

Post-TOS there have been a couple good examples both in the movies and subsequent TV series' that exercised one or both of these ''gimmicks,'' but overall, though--and it is definitely my opinion (that may or may not be shared by some)--I just think there is so much ''untilled'' creative ground that could be used to ''grow'' something new and better and just as clever if a storyteller tried hard enough.

Perhaps we'll see this in the upcoming movie.

As for the use of the words ''tricks'' or ''gimmicks'', I see no wrong in describing these elements that way. Storytelling can be a ''magic show'' of many ''tricks.'' There are just more new and better tricks in the ''bag of tricks'' that could be performed.
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  #30  
Old 01-13-2009, 03:27 PM
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only1jamest only1jamest is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribbler View Post
If things had been done with more adherence to early TOS episodes some of the more famous characters would have been left out (Uhura and Chekov for example).

Noooooooo, Uhura is my number one overriding reason to seee this movie.
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