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The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > Star Trek XI: The Movie > Nero is screwing with canon! Stop him!
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Old 01-05-2009, 02:57 PM
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MigueldaRican MigueldaRican is offline
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Default Nero is screwing with canon! Stop him!

Okay, I've heard all the canon arguments: Kirk driving, who's present on the bridge, the ship's new look, etc. The one about the ship's look is actually the most challenging debate when it comes to canon, in my opinion.

But the "omg, the TOS crew comes into contact with Romulans before the TOS tv show takes place" is a little idiotic. Why? Because it's not a canon issue!

What? Is there a plot modification that I'm not aware of? Is Nero and his gang of Romulans not from the future, but just still in the same time as young Kirk here? Yes, that would be another canon issue.

But thus far the plot of the movie is that Nero is from the future. All history screw ups are the blame of Nero. Not the writers forgetting important Trek history, but Nero taking an active campaign to destroy it.

Alright, boys and girls, let's do this as clear as possible. Nero is a bad, bad man. He no likey good guys.

Look, Nero wouldn't probably give two pieces of stale rat crap about the fanboy need for Trek canon to be intact. 1. He's an in story character and doesn't know you. 2. Even if he did, do you think Nero would be like, "Ah, Jeez, you're right, Kirk and dem' aint supposed ta see any of us Romulan guys yet. We're gonna screw up canon. I'm sorry folks, I'll stop."

No! Nero bad! Spock good! It's Spock's job to stop Nero from screwing things up. And I'm sorry, Nimoy be thy name, and may he strike me dead, but even the logical Vulanian Spock is not going to that successful. People may die, important people.

This is not a canon issue! Christcrackers, what the heck, man?
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Old 01-05-2009, 03:19 PM
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Default it's only my opinion but...

canon is always and issue... in the real Trek universe that is not the one created by Nero.
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Old 01-05-2009, 05:10 PM
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I've said my peace already and have bashed the project enough. I have accepted this movie for what it is. No more complaints from me... at least until May 8th
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Old 01-05-2009, 05:19 PM
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Okay let's say I write a story that everyone likes. Then I write a sequel in which an evil character comes along, decides to go back to the events in which the first story took place to ruin events in that story.

The writer is not to blame per se. It's the character. The evil character couldn't care less about the events of the first story. In fact, assuming my first story had a happy ending, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the evil character would want to change the events of that story so that it has an unhappy ending?

In fact the I, the writer, would rightfully be criticized if I "held back" and tried to be careful and not allow the villain to screw too much up. This is a power hungry villain. It would be entirely out of character for the villain to go, "Oh, better not touch that. I don't want to ruin the lives of these good people."
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Old 01-05-2009, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MigueldaRican View Post
Okay let's say I write a story that everyone likes. Then I write a sequel in which an evil character comes along, decides to go back to the events in which the first story took place to ruin events in that story.

The writer is not to blame per se. It's the character. The evil character couldn't care less about the events of the first story. In fact, assuming my first story had a happy ending, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the evil character would want to change the events of that story so that it has an unhappy ending?

In fact the I, the writer, would rightfully be criticized if I "held back" and tried to be careful and not allow the villain to screw too much up. This is a power hungry villain. It would be entirely out of character for the villain to go, "Oh, better not touch that. I don't want to ruin the lives of these good people."

Look, everything you're saying makes sense and when that POV is taken, the plot of the new movie is plausable, credible, and convincing. To paraphrase Obi-Wan, a lot of the truths that we hold depend on a certain point of view. My POV is that this is not the type of story that floats my boat necessarily, but as I've noted in the past, I will see the movie with an open mind and reserve any further judgement for afterwards. I'm through letting off steam.
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Old 01-05-2009, 05:45 PM
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I’m reserving my final opinion for May 8th. I have to say though that the movie looks cool and the ship, at least from what I have seen, does not, but as I said I will save my final judgments for May, or when they decide to release a better view of the ship.
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Old 01-05-2009, 06:01 PM
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I think the producers are counting on the fanboy cannon hysteria. After all, if something you love and are fanatical about gets threatened, you have an emotional stake in how the story turns out. It was once a big deal that Kirk had to let Edith Keeler get hit by a truck driven by Eddie Paskey. The reason was his need to save the future, specifically his own "Trek" history. The result was one of the best TOS episodes ever! Same thing with TNG and "First Contact."

We've seen this before... only now, when things get muddled with, the changes might become permanent.
Uhura might actually end up having some hot bedrrom scenes...
Scotty might end up with an authentic Scottish accent...
Kirk might get the crap beaten out of him once in a while by someone other than Finnigan...
Spock could end up being a litle more "cool" with his human side...
Sulu might have a romantic intrest in something other than his saber and his plants....
Chekov could get killed, and stay that way!
And the Enterprise might permanently end up getting an upgrade.

How horrible!
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:39 AM
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:25 AM
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Miguel, I understand your view but to pick the Romulans-BoT problem out, either they explain it via the alternate universe or give an explanation like Romulans pose as renegade Vulcans. This is a relevant point to some of us because the former explanation would make the "new universe" more unlike the "normal Trekverse". And everyone likes something in the normale Trekverse, for some it is the design of the Enterprise, for some it is the history of Romulans and the Federation.
Opinions about the relevance of certain elements of Trek differ. It is not a matter of canon but priorities: what is quintessential Trek and what is irrelevant? To continue your view to the extreme, would you like the movie if Nero's interference would make the UFP a military agency, if it would cause a bloody war, if it would lead to Dark Trek? I think a lot of the fans, who like Trek for the bright future element would not like this ... and that is perhaps why this movie will keeps Trek's optimism
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Old 01-06-2009, 06:03 AM
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Brings us back to a thread I started a long time ago, where people thought I was being snide or insincere -- I wasn't. The question was: what do you absolutely not want being screwed with here? How far is too far?
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