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Old 12-28-2008, 01:31 PM
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Default Reason why Shatner should NOT be in Star Trek XI

There were some threads a while back that touched on the subject of William Shatner portraying a "Old Kirk" in the new movie. I've been thinking about it and I have a few good reasons why it would not work.

1) "He's Dead Jim" - Kirk is dead! Shanter himself allowed his character to die (Twice in one film) when he accepted the Generations script.

2) "He's been dead a long time Captain" - Old Spock is REALLY old! Vulcans live longer than humans and as aged as Nemoy looks he is around LONG after Kirk and Bones died. You will miss the other two characters but it makes sense why they are not around.

3) "I'm dead Jim" - If you have a old Kirk in the film you should have Bones around. DeForest Kelley is the only actor that could play Bones alongside Shatner and Nemoy and he has passed on. Generations showed that without the other two characters on the screen, Kirk seemed incomplete (Uhura, Sulu and Spock were missed too). DeForest fought long and hard to be appreciated in the films as part of the "Trinity". Spock is Old and has outlived his two best friends, going back in time alone and seeing his friends again seems like a better story.

You could have Spock stop in a time to pick up Kirk and the others to go back and save their future but that seems too complex. Spock might as well stop at the time Picard get's Kirk killed and save him then but that would be changing two timelines and would be a selfish act and not very Vulcan.

4) "They're dead Captain" - You can't bring back Old Sulu, Old Uhura, Old Checkov and (especially) Old Scotty in any future movies unless it is a flashback any one of those characters are having. Tis film is using time travel so to do it again would be a mistake. BUT, having a Captain Sulu film would be fun with the other characters involved in a timeline that works with each actor's age.

I'm curious what others think of all this.
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:50 PM
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Don't worry this topic is a möbius strip. We'll see it again next month.

Actually, I hope Nimoy's presence in XI isn't too distracting. It's time to finally close the book and begin anew. I hope XI brings a resurgence to the franchise.
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Old 12-28-2008, 01:54 PM
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I'm afraid Shatner does have a point when he says, "It's Science Fiction...anything could have happened."

I have a better reason, bringing back an old Captain Kirk as well as an old Spock really doesn't add anything to the story as it is "alledgedly" being told.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:04 PM
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Found this inspirational poster I wanted to share:

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Old 12-28-2008, 02:09 PM
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Like the Shat said many times... it's science fiction... anything is possible and such... I mean what better man to bring back into battle to fight Nero? Cmooon that woulda been kick ***! After it was over you could do a story about him going back to his time knowing he saved the universe once again then continue on to his death again... etc... could have been fun.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:09 PM
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LOL. Good one Sybock. How overbearing it would be to have two Kirks in the same film.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:13 PM
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Woulda been nice to see a scene with old/new Kirk... the young being a bigger **** they could fight it out and the old one could kick his butt and knock some sense into him...er.. hisself.. lol
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:21 PM
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The logic is sound, Sybock... for an emotional mad Vulcan with a delusion of grandeur .

The plot cant bear more then one of the original cast. More then one would suck screen time from the recast actors. And its the recast actors who will need every second of the screentime to make us all get used to them.

As you said: Kirk does work poorly all alone and Shatner is to old to play a Kirk prior to Generations. And to resurrect him from the dead it would have needed either a lot of screentime or another character of the original cast. Again, sucks up screentime from the new cast. DeForest Kelley is dead and McCoy would have worked poor all alone too. The only character left is Spock, and Spock is prooven to work in the TNG episode Reunification. Go with Spock!

The only alternative where a Captain Sulu though. Sorry, Takei, for the average non-fan audience you allways have been a sidekick of the triumphirate. It would have worked poorly too. The same where true for Uhura and Checkov and Scottie too (and Dohan is dead allready anyway).

I guess that was the whole reasoning behind it on the parts of Orci and Kurtzman.
We cant bear more then one original cast member, Spock works, Spock is iconic and well known everywhere and to everyone...
go with Spock!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H16Qv6kYVC0

Last edited by Botany Bay : 12-28-2008 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 12-28-2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
triumphirate
That is the word I was looking for in my head and had to settle for "Trinity". Also, good points about Sulu.
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Old 12-28-2008, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
There were some threads a while back that touched on the subject of William Shatner portraying a "Old Kirk" in the new movie. I've been thinking about it and I have a few good reasons why it would not work.

1) "He's Dead Jim" - Kirk is dead! Shanter himself allowed his character to die (Twice in one film) when he accepted the Generations script.

2) "He's been dead a long time Captain" - Old Spock is REALLY old! Vulcans live longer than humans and as aged as Nemoy looks he is around LONG after Kirk and Bones died. You will miss the other two characters but it makes sense why they are not around.

3) "I'm dead Jim" - If you have a old Kirk in the film you should have Bones around. DeForest Kelley is the only actor that could play Bones alongside Shatner and Nemoy and he has passed on. Generations showed that without the other two characters on the screen, Kirk seemed incomplete (Uhura, Sulu and Spock were missed too). DeForest fought long and hard to be appreciated in the films as part of the "Trinity". Spock is Old and has outlived his two best friends, going back in time alone and seeing his friends again seems like a better story.

You could have Spock stop in a time to pick up Kirk and the others to go back and save their future but that seems too complex. Spock might as well stop at the time Picard get's Kirk killed and save him then but that would be changing two timelines and would be a selfish act and not very Vulcan.

4) "They're dead Captain" - You can't bring back Old Sulu, Old Uhura, Old Checkov and (especially) Old Scotty in any future movies unless it is a flashback any one of those characters are having. Tis film is using time travel so to do it again would be a mistake. BUT, having a Captain Sulu film would be fun with the other characters involved in a timeline that works with each actor's age.

I'm curious what others think of all this.
1) There are numerous theories for how to bring back Shat. It would be easy.

2) Time is meaningless in Trek and sci-fi.

3) CGI has become advanced enough to have all of the old actors.

4) They can all be shown in the film w/CGI
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