The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > Star Trek XI: The Movie > What good are the shields? Really?
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 12-14-2008, 07:17 AM
miles3347 miles3347 is offline
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 178
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by grup View Post
ST:TUC was just an example since I had just finished watching it. It seems (seems) that almost as soon as they're hit in any flick, the bridge explodes in a cascade of sparks and the crew tumble over themselves. They're in battle for just minutes before they're incapacitated in some form or another.

And there always seems to be a reason for this. For someone who is as accomplished as a Starfleet officer can be, he sure gets caught with his pants down a lot.
Unfortunate in the past they were to cheep to spring for pyrotechnic. Their were only two episode in next gen when they had exploding sets.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-14-2008, 07:46 AM
Scribbler's Avatar
Scribbler Scribbler is offline
Lieutenant Commander
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 726
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grup View Post
I just got done watching ST:TUC. And as with every ST movie before, and every movie after, all it takes is 3 maybe 4 hits and the shields are collapsing, the hull is breached, she starts listing or the bridge is a cascade of sparks and electrical mayhem. WT#?

Does this bother anyone else?
I really laughed at this post! I hope they will find a different way to make battles exciting in the movie. Two dramatic devices bug the hell out of me: Firstly, when ships come under fire, consoles have a strong tendency to blow up in people's faces either killing them or burning them horribly. Why? The console is just a TV and a keyboard, why are they such volatile, high voltage devices? Secondly, when there isn't enough power for the engines to escape some wibbly gravity phenomenon, they transfer power from life support to give the engines a helping hand. I'm no scientist but I'm guessing it might take less energy to power the air-con and piddle recyclers than it does to bend the fabric of space and propel a 200,000 tonne spaceship faster than the speed of light...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-14-2008, 07:48 AM
Botany Bay's Avatar
Botany Bay Botany Bay is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by grup View Post
ST:TUC was just an example since I had just finished watching it. It seems (seems) that almost as soon as they're hit in any flick, the bridge explodes in a cascade of sparks and the crew tumble over themselves. They're in battle for just minutes before they're incapacitated in some form or another.
Again, what do you expect? Would you prefer to see two ships firing at eachother for an hour or two, Kirk drinking his coffee, looking bored, the klingon Commander going to take some off duty time? "Call me as soon as our shields are down to 70 percent! I am in the gym!"

How should a battle in Star Trek look like? If a torpedo explodes nearby, unleashing the power of several nuclear fusion bombs, what do you think happens aboard?

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=EJMDEE...eature=related
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=RKvvrN...eature=related
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-14-2008, 07:53 AM
Scribbler's Avatar
Scribbler Scribbler is offline
Lieutenant Commander
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 726
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Botany Bay View Post
Again, what do you expect? Would you prefer to see two ships firing at eachother for an hour or two, Kirk drinking his coffee, looking bored, the klingon Commander going to take some off duty time? "Call me as soon as our shields are down to 70 percent! I am in the gym!"

How should a battle in Star Trek look like? If a torpedo explodes nearby, unleashing the power of several nuclear fusion bombs, what do you think happens aboard?

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=EJMDEE...eature=related
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=RKvvrN...eature=related
Good one! Here's a couple of ideas:
What about putting some glass screens on the bridge which could shatter impressively? Maybe there could be some extra consoles dotted around which don't seem to have a core function but could actually be physically damaged rather than just emit sparks? Come to think of it, I seem to remember both of those features being present on the new bridge...
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-14-2008, 07:58 AM
Botany Bay's Avatar
Botany Bay Botany Bay is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribbler View Post
Good one! Here's a couple of ideas:
What about putting some glass screens on the bridge which could shatter impressively? Maybe there could be some extra consoles dotted around which don't seem to have a core function but could actually be physically damaged rather than just emit sparks? Come to think of it, I seem to remember both of those features being present on the new bridge...
The scattering window, neat

Seriously, I think the way The Wrath of Khan handled it was okay. Debris falling from the ceiling, showing the ships structural integrity is under heavy stress. Sparks are okay too, coming from melting metal, microruptures in the hull, the outer hull would also get terribly hot, melting parts of the inner hull, creating steam, fume and such. The fast increasing temperature could also send a shockwave, and that could make consoles appear to explode while they are actually just blown apart by the air pressure rising within a glimpse of an eye. The hot air would then burn people.

An explosion going right through the saucer and punshing a hole through it as in The Undiscovered Country is absolutely believable, I think. This would just be one or two percent of the destructive potential of a photon torpedo. Means the shields had deflected 99 percent of the explosion in that scene. I would call that impressively effective shields.

Last edited by Botany Bay : 12-14-2008 at 08:03 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-14-2008, 08:02 AM
Aqua's Avatar
Aqua Aqua is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 447
Default

It should look like a bunch of people in skinsuites with helmets and gloves racked and ready to don in case of hull breach, locked into chairs with five point harnesses, displays and stuff sometimes failing but never exploding - though perhaps they could have stuff explode behind wall panels where the real equipment is.

I also have a problem with them transferring life support power to the engines for whatever the emergency of the day is, that's just stupid.

I don't have a problem with shields failing in 5-10min after hits from an equally powerful ship and more rapidly from more powerful ships, I do have problems with ships that are previously shown as weak to suddenly be delivering knockout punches.

I also have problems with them taking a potshot or two, and if that doesn't work they stop firing. That's when you fire all phaser banks and put the torpedoes into constant rapid fire. I understand why they don't show this in external views due to Fx costs, but they could definitely put it in the script and keep the internal views. They should also maneuver, not just sit in place. This is one area where I think Nemesis got it right (though they had many other problems)
__________________
To bathe a cat takes brute force, perseverance, courage of conviction - and a cat.
The last ingredient is usually hardest to come by.
- Stephen Baker
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-14-2008, 08:05 AM
Commodore's Avatar
Commodore Commodore is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Starbase 24
Posts: 2,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribbler View Post
I really laughed at this post! I hope they will find a different way to make battles exciting in the movie. Two dramatic devices bug the hell out of me: Firstly, when ships come under fire, consoles have a strong tendency to blow up in people's faces either killing them or burning them horribly. Why? The console is just a TV and a keyboard, why are they such volatile, high voltage devices?
Because starships are dangerous places to be, even in the 24th-Century. They draw their power from a energy grid that draws directly from the ship's warp core. If the warp core is overtaxed or otherwise severely disrupted, it can cause power surges that can overload some consoles. Consoles are probably built with surge protectors, but even these aren't infallible. 24th-Century technology hasn't found a way around system overloads yet.

To me, it's not so much a question of why do consoles explode than it's why don't Starfleet personnel wear more protective gear around them.
Quote:
Secondly, when there isn't enough power for the engines to escape some wibbly gravity phenomenon, they transfer power from life support to give the engines a helping hand. I'm no scientist but I'm guessing it might take less energy to power the air-con and piddle recyclers than it does to bend the fabric of space and propel a 200,000 tonne spaceship faster than the speed of light...
Every little bit of extra power helps, but in most instances it's a case of the warp engines being offline (or overtaxed) and a need to draw extra power from somewhere to keep another criticial system going (like shields or weapons).
__________________
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
--En Vogue
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-14-2008, 08:09 AM
Botany Bay's Avatar
Botany Bay Botany Bay is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua View Post
It should look like a bunch of people in skinsuites with helmets and gloves racked and ready to don in case of hull breach, locked into chairs with five point harnesses, [...]
Have you ever seen the decks crew of an aircraft carrier wearing protective suits all day?

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=iK7RGpSlJ7Y
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-14-2008, 08:14 AM
Darmok's Avatar
Darmok Darmok is offline
Lieutenant, Junior Grade
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 114
Post Talk to Korath

Yea this has always bothered me, but that is why Korath was developing the ablative armor, and Klingon shields are stronger then Starfleet's! But yea the should take more then a few hits.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-14-2008, 08:25 AM
Aqua's Avatar
Aqua Aqua is offline
Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 447
Default

deck crews are mobile, not in stationary positions, and they weren't coming under attack so this is a bad analogy. I've seen old footage when ships are about to go to battle where they don flak jackets and helmets.

Nor did I say anything about them wearing this all day. With sensors as good as they're supposed to have, they should have the few minutes required to don the suits.
__________________
To bathe a cat takes brute force, perseverance, courage of conviction - and a cat.
The last ingredient is usually hardest to come by.
- Stephen Baker
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:07 AM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.