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  #51  
Old 12-05-2008, 12:29 PM
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Can someone either confirm or deny the following...?

That as the original series model was designed and built, the ship was intended to be smaller. This would have been in the days when it was referred to as "Cruiser Class" and before they came up with "Starship Class" But AFTER the model was built they came up with the Starship designation and decided it was really supposed to be the size of a modern Aircraft Carrier?
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  #52  
Old 12-05-2008, 01:06 PM
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There was an impression the ship was smaller, hence in "The Cage", crew of 200, and the taller bridge dome on the model. When the series went into production, the decision was made to make the ship seem bigger, so rather than build a rescaled model, they simply swapped out the bridge dome, and made sure that all future crew compliment mentions were 400 to 430.
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  #53  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionTrek08 View Post
No, in the sense that you just descrbed -- as an origin story, it clearly takes place BEFORE the series and events of TOS, pretty much making it not-TOS by definition.

TOS-related? To be sure. But different time, different circumstances... different production.

DEG's design is one way to satisfy TOS requirements, but not necessarily the film's requirements which remain unknown still.
Deg's Enterprise would satisfy the fact that this IS a TOS story in that it takes place between the events of "The Cage" and "WNMHGB". Thus making it a TOS story. We know what the Enterprise looked like during Pike's command and during Kirk's command. They were virtually identical. The new Abramsprise is a total departure from that. Etc. Etc.
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  #54  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
Deg's Enterprise would satisfy the fact that this IS a TOS story in that it takes place between the events of "The Cage" and "WNMHGB". Thus making it a TOS story. We know what the Enterprise looked like during Pike's command and during Kirk's command. They were virtually identical. The new Abramsprise is a total departure from that. Etc. Etc.
Dude, the film is done. Too late to change stuff, except maybe your name to I-Am-Dim.
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  #55  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionTrek08 View Post
No, in the sense that you just descrbed -- as an origin story, it clearly takes place BEFORE the series and events of TOS, pretty much making it not-TOS by definition.

TOS-related? To be sure. But different time, different circumstances... different production.

DEG's design is one way to satisfy TOS requirements, but not necessarily the film's requirements which remain unknown still.
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Dude, the film is done. Too late to change stuff, except maybe your name to I-Am-Dim.
Ya think? Dude. We all know the movie is finished. That doesn't mean we can't complain if we darn well want to.
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  #56  
Old 12-06-2008, 08:59 AM
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As I said to my supervisor at work the other day.

"Yes, I'm fully aware that there is absolutely nothing I can do about the weather. Complaining about how cold it is out here, though is my way of dealing with the fact that there is nothing I can do about the weather."
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  #57  
Old 12-06-2008, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
Ya think? Dude. We all know the movie is finished. That doesn't mean we can't complain if we darn well want to.
Yes, but if complaining about something isn't able to lead to a change over what's being complained about. Which in this case, is not likely then it eventually switches from complaining to just whining.
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  #58  
Old 12-08-2008, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
Deg's Enterprise would satisfy the fact that this IS a TOS story in that it takes place between the events of "The Cage" and "WNMHGB". Thus making it a TOS story. We know what the Enterprise looked like during Pike's command and during Kirk's command. They were virtually identical. The new Abramsprise is a total departure from that. Etc. Etc.
I believe it comes down to interpretation, but given your parameters:

"The Cage" is not actually part of TOS -- it was a 'failed' pilot for STAR TREK which was abandoned and reworked/recast to create a new pilot for the series.

Elements of "The Cage" were reused (due to a shortage of airable episodes) as "The Menagerie", which as written clearly takes place LONG before James Kirk took command of the Enterprise... and TOS itself doesn't begin until after Kirk is already in command.

So for my money, "The Cage" is pre-history of TOS, not TOS itself, which is the Kirk command era of his five-year mission. Of the TOS crew, only Spock appears in events of "The Cage", so to include it in TOS would somehow mean that TOS is about Spock's career, not Kirk's command and crew... and I think that pretty much flies in the face of any basic understanding of what TOS represents.

That's why I say this new film is a pre-TOS story, because it's main events happen before WNMHGB where TOS stars, chronologically. Of course parts of the film will be well post-TOS too... but that only underscores how it's not TOS.

Put it this way: had first season production kept up pace, GR and the writers would never have written "The Menagerie" and it wouldn't even have appeared in the series -- its inclusion was a network necessity, not a creative choice. That makes it quite 'outside' TOS for me. But glad it was shoehorned into the series, still!
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  #59  
Old 12-08-2008, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissionTrek08 View Post
I believe it comes down to interpretation, but given your parameters:

"The Cage" is not actually part of TOS -- it was a 'failed' pilot for STAR TREK which was abandoned and reworked/recast to create a new pilot for the series.

Elements of "The Cage" were reused (due to a shortage of airable episodes) as "The Menagerie", which as written clearly takes place LONG before James Kirk took command of the Enterprise... and TOS itself doesn't begin until after Kirk is already in command.

So for my money, "The Cage" is pre-history of TOS, not TOS itself, which is the Kirk command era of his five-year mission. Of the TOS crew, only Spock appears in events of "The Cage", so to include it in TOS would somehow mean that TOS is about Spock's career, not Kirk's command and crew... and I think that pretty much flies in the face of any basic understanding of what TOS represents.

That's why I say this new film is a pre-TOS story, because it's main events happen before WNMHGB where TOS stars, chronologically. Of course parts of the film will be well post-TOS too... but that only underscores how it's not TOS.

Put it this way: had first season production kept up pace, GR and the writers would never have written "The Menagerie" and it wouldn't even have appeared in the series -- its inclusion was a network necessity, not a creative choice. That makes it quite 'outside' TOS for me. But glad it was shoehorned into the series, still!
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  #60  
Old 12-08-2008, 12:53 PM
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From what I see on the chart with all the starships called Enterprise, the JJ Abrams version seems to fit much better between the NX-01 and the refitted 1701 or 1701-A. It just looks like a more reasonable stage in the progression that is already there. Now don't get me wrong here, I have stated my uncontrollable unwillingness to completely accept this new ship in another thread; I'm just saying, from a visual design point of view (and when considered in its context as just one point in a pre-established progression,) it works a little better than the original.
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