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  #11  
Old 12-03-2008, 03:58 PM
Wagon Train Wagon Train is offline
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Hello Kevin,

This is Hollywood.

You seemed to imply in your post responding to MrQ1701 that the almighty dollar was the most important part of filmmaking.

...are you saying there is some *other* part to it?
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2008, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagon Train View Post
Hello Kevin,

This is Hollywood.

You seemed to imply in your post responding to MrQ1701 that the almighty dollar was the most important part of filmmaking.

...are you saying there is some *other* part to it?
Ideally? Subtlety.

Any jerk with a coke habit and a Ferrari in the shop can be up front about being out for Joe Sixpack's twelve bucks.

The really successful jerks, on the other hand, don't make that fact screechingly obvious.
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2008, 06:06 PM
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Well, the primary reason I didn't go see Nemesis in the Theater opening weekend...

I was on the boards reading all the messages from people talking about how terrible it was. My cash budget is tight as it is, so even going to a matinee is a matter for me that has to be budgeted and planned for months in advance. If I even get a wiff that I'm not going to get my money's worth...I don't spend it, it's far too precious to spend on something that I'll regret later.
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2008, 06:47 PM
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I need to put in my 2 cents here. I'm not a "canon-ite". In fact, I hate the word canon. Religions have canons, not fiction. But I do think it is important to keep continuity as much as possible without hurting the story.

First; from what I've seen Abrams is sticking to the most important "canon" of Star Trek - the idea of hope for the future of mankind. I'm sick to death of all the dark future sci-fi. I have stated several times that I would have loved to see this new Enterprise look more like the TOS version but that's not as important as keeping to the spirit of the original show and it sounds like that is what Abrams is trying to do.

Second; I agree with some of the previous responses; The last few movies just weren't as good as the earlier onces and they faced stiff competition. Add to that, viewers were just getting bored with Star Trek. "Canon" was part of that problem. The writer's creativity was stifled by the amount of "canon" they had to adhere to.

Finally; I finally saw Nemesis recently. I had never seen it because I had heard it sucked, and it definately did suck. Not only did Nemesis repeatedly violate what I would consider Star Trek "canon" it was just plain AWEFUL science fiction. Case in point: After the Enterprise rammed his ship, the villian actually backed his ship off the Enterprise. Hello? As Heinlein would say, if you're going to write science fiction, learn something about science first!
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2008, 06:52 PM
TAReber TAReber is offline
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The conditions between Star Trek and Star Wars fans are completely different. A huge archive of star trek shows are available to everyone where Star Wars was limited to an ending.

Basically what I'm trying to get at is my favorite star trek show can be found on TV every day, where Star Wars is a much more rare occasion then Star Trek. If I want to see what happens in star trek, I can turn on the TV, If i want to see what happened in star wars, I had to go to the movie theater.

Last edited by TAReber : 12-03-2008 at 06:56 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2008, 07:10 PM
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Great thread!

I haven't been to ALL the ST opening days but have seen them all in their first week which I also do for Bond, Star Wars, Lethal Weapon, Indianna Jones, Batman, Superman, X-Men, Die Hard and Bourne movies. It's what I do since I believe these films are better on a bigger screen and with lots of other fans ..... it adds to the "experience".

It does sadden me when it feels like it is the LAST one due to poor box office. But time has proven that with a fanbase there studios become aware there is money to be made. I truly thought I'd never see another ST movie after ST: Nemisis, not because I did not enjoy it but because it did not make a lot of money. It was not the best swan song, but really, Data was starting to age and the rest of the cast (as Roger Moore once said about his Bond) was getting "long in the tooth".

Who knows, someday Voyager, DS9 and (dare I say) Enterprise might be made into films with a different cast and some of us fans in wheel chairs will be screaming "Canon!" as our grandkids are truly enjoying what they see.

That's why I believe this film should be made for today's audience because it is getting a fresh start and may continue until this new cast is 90 years old like Shat and Nemoy are now. "Canon" fans still have what they love on VHS, DVD, Bluray and someday implanted directly into their brain. For me TOS died with bones and scotty and ST:VI was a wonderful swan song for that cast.

Let a new generation of fans watch this new film and, it being their first trek experience, they will be diving into the 1,000's of hours of Trek's past that we all know and love and ST will live forever. Also have faith in the studios because every so often a fan get's a job there and "Wham", something we love comes back. Personally, I'm still waiting for "Bill and Ted III".
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2008, 07:14 PM
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WildGunsTomcat WildGunsTomcat is offline
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The OP has a point.

Star Wars fans garner much more loyalty even when the movie is known to be crappy. They still support it.

Star Trek fans are a little...dare I say.....snobbish...when it comes to their beloved universe.

Which is not to say there's anything wrong with expecting quality in your entertainment and not just blindly walking into a theater because it says Star Trek on the banner.

But the Star Trek fan base has no loyalty anymore. We're all kinda split 50/50 on this new incarnation. It's like an online war over this movie...which in a way is exciting.
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2008, 07:21 PM
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It's interesting, but I've notice a similar thing about football fans as well.

Some fans love their team and support them through thick and thin, win or lose. While others love their team when they win, and are calling for everyone from the coach to the waterboy to be fired and replaced when they lose.
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2008, 07:44 PM
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*Star Wars fans garner much more loyalty even when the movie is known to be crappy. They still support it.*
Did you see the backlash Clone Wars received?
The TV series seems to be doing quite well regardless.
It just proves a point; never listen to the fans.
Don't pander to them either.
Let your Muse be your guide.
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2008, 07:53 PM
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Default it's only my opinion but...

lets face it, all of the Star Trek movies with the exception of The Voyage Home (which I rate a 7 out of 10) were mediocre, poorly conceived, poorly written and poorly executed.

Who should we blame for that?

I'd say, the people who lacked vision and those who said, "Sorry, we don't have the budget to do that!" and those who thought they could triple their investment for every dollar they could save!
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