[LTJG Iferal]

Why on earth would Paramount so disrespect you - YOU, the loyal Trek fan base! The ones who have been putting food on their table! The ones without whom Star Trek would not have become the international phenomenon it is!

I have a theory. Try to follow along.

Let's take a look at the last few "canon-respecting" Star Trek movies.

Star Trek: First Contact
$45m budget
$92,027,888 gross domestic
$146,027,888 gross worldwide

Star Trek: Insurrection
$58m budget
$70,187,658 gross domestic
$112,600,000 gross worldwide

Star Trek Nemesis
$60m budget
$43,254,409 gross domestic
$67,312,826 gross worldwide

Maybe that's why. The more money they spent trying to make you happy, the less you appreciated their effort. I suggest that you all had come to take Star Trek for granted. They kept releasing Picard movies and you eventually stopped caring. And now - NOW, something is "different", and suddenly you're all in a tizzy, and threatening to "boycott" the movie because it doesn't fit your perfect canon...well, what happened the last time they stuck to canon? Where were YOU in December '02? Fine, we know NOW that Nemesis was a horrible movie - but nobody knew that on opening day, so where was everybody? George Lucas released two epicly-crappy movies and people STILL lined up at midnight in all their robe-clad, plastic-sword-wielding geekdom when Episode III came out. Where was the representation for Star Trek? Say what you want, but the fact is, most of you were watching Lord of the Rings, or Harry-frickin-Potter. The numbers don't lie. Your threat to "boycott" simply doesn't have any teeth, because apparently you've been boycotting Trek in growing numbers for the last several years.

What have you managed to give TPTB for sticking to canon?

First Contact: $101 million.

Insurrection: $54 million.

Nemesis: $7 million.

Why has Paramount abandoned you? Exactly who has abandoned whom?

All this movie has to do is net more than $7 million dollars to prove that you purists are not the asset you all seem to think you are.

Just my two cents.

[Diron Hod]

He's got a point, you know.

[radoskal]

Personally I can tell you where I was in December of 02, at least for a few hours. In my College town theater, which by the way is for some reason an hour outside of the college town, SEEING NEMESIS...oh and did I also mention I bought the DVD of Nemesis? just to have all 10 trek movies. Yeah, I'm sure I'm not the only one. So if you ask me if I personally feel justified in my position, you sure bet I do. That 7 million had to come from somewhere, and part of it came out of my pocket. I regretted it afterwards. They should have given the director's job to Frakes, like he wanted, and stuck with the original script.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by LTJG Iferal

Let's take a look at the last few "canon-respecting" Star Trek movies.

Star Trek: First Contact
$45m budget
$92,027,888 gross domestic
$146,027,888 gross worldwide

Star Trek: Insurrection
$58m budget
$70,187,658 gross domestic
$112,600,000 gross worldwide

Star Trek Nemesis
$60m budget
$43,254,409 gross domestic
$67,312,826 gross worldwide

Maybe that's why. The more money they spent trying to make you happy, the less you appreciated their effort.

Perhaps the lesson for Paramount was -- release increasingly badly-written movies, watch them do increasingly poorly at the box office. Don't forget that fans were growing increasingly weary of the showrunners by that point. Canon hardly figured into the films, since they were moving forward in time (within the overall Trek story) not backward. Look at the backlash Enterprise got, on the other hand, and then also figure that into the growing attitude of dismissiveness for Berman & Braga's reign as Trek's helmers.

[LTJG Iferal]

Originally Posted by radoskal

Personally I can tell you where I was in December of 02, at least for a few hours. In my College town theater, which by the way is for some reason an hour outside of the college town, SEEING NEMESIS...oh and did I also mention I bought the DVD of Nemesis? just to have all 10 trek movies.

So you were the one.

It's true, that the $7 million had to come from "somewhere". But the point is, that "where" is one heck of a lot smaller than it was even 5 years earlier. When you talk about the "loyal fan base", you're talking about the Incredible Shrinking Woman, plain and simple. And the point still stands: those of you who choose to boycott will ultimately make zero difference whatsoever. If everybody didn't show up for the last movie, it's not going to make Paramount feel bad that you all won't show up for this one.

[MrQ1701]

Another canon thread!!! Wooooo-Hooooo!! Gotta love it!

Now that I got that out of my system.....I think this thread starter has a point. We may not agree on it, but the point is still valid. I have enjoyed ALL the Trek movies. I am not a writer, I don't work in the movie industy, and I am not a real critic (although I can be critical!). I enjoyed the movies and supported them throughout all the bickering and sneering. Most of the movies that have recieved poor ratings from critics tend to do alright in the box office, then the highly acclaimed movies sometimes don't even make it to my local theater!!

I think Saint has agood point as well. Canon is MORE of an issue when you covering a "history" period in Trek. There are tons of little facts we already know about the TOS characters, so there is more to violate and ignore for this movie. Moving forward in the Trek universe is easier and few canon references are seen onscreen. Even first Contact made "canon" errors with how quickly they made it back to Earth from the Neutral zone, and they beemed out the Defiant crew through their shields!! Tons of mistakes like that have been made and they are better to be ignored.

[LTJG Iferal]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Perhaps the lesson for Paramount was -- release increasingly badly-written movies, watch them do increasingly poorly at the box office. Don't forget that fans were growing increasingly weary of the showrunners by that point. Canon hardly figured into the films, since they were moving forward in time (within the overall Trek story) not backward. Look at the backlash Enterprise got, on the other hand, and then also figure that into the growing attitude of dismissiveness for Berman & Braga's reign as Trek's helmers.

You completely missed the point about Lucas's pathetically-bad stories still bringing in the fans because people didn't care about the script, they loved Star Wars (for some reason, I don't get it either), and that's all that mattered to them. Insurrection and Nemesis may have been (OK, were) "badly-written", but they were Trek to the core, there's no escaping it.

Besides, my last point still stands: You've said yourself that it's not "just canon" but this story that you've decided is bad, that makes you dislike this movie. Well, if this "badly-written", non-canon story nets more than $7 million next summer, your excuses about bad writing will turn out to have been rather empty.

You've been "abandoned" because your loyalty, such as it is, to the brand doesn't pay. Paramount can't afford to keep feeding you for free.

[kevin]

I think it's easy to start going round in circles again, but we all know the box office declined significantly from FC to NEMESIS. Now there are a hundred and one different reasons (LOTR, bad script, apathy, or anything you care to mention whichever side you fall on) but it shows that a major rethink of where the franchise was going was needed.

Now we all can (and frequently do) disagree on where this new film is heading, but I don't think either side is blameless - yes, some of the material sent our way could have been better, but why did the box-office collapse so much in just two films?

Now I can understand not wanting to spend money seeing it second time round, but NEMESIS had the lowest opening weekend of the recent films, so a lot of people never really went to see it in the first place. I don't remember that far back regarding early word of mouth, but was it supposed to be that bad going in? Or did it just hold no interest for anyone? Was it simply apathy by some people?

[MrQ1701]

All hail the mighty dollar!

[kevin]

In Hollywood - it's the most important part!!