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  #11  
Old 11-29-2008, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Kukalaka View Post
If I walk out of 'Star Trek' feeling satisfied and the franchise continues on then I don't care how old in Earth years Checkov was when he did whatever aboard the ship; or who Scotty's nephew ended up marrying.
Well I would love to hear Scotty's nephew married, because his nephew died a hero during TWOK. It was a powerful scene. Too much to be erased without cause.
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  #12  
Old 11-29-2008, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Yagami Crewman View Post
Well I would love to hear Scotty's nephew married, because his nephew died a hero during TWOK. It was a powerful scene. Too much to be erased without cause.
"Too much to be erased without cause." How can you say in seven words, what I couldn't express with a hundred? But thank you.
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  #13  
Old 11-29-2008, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Elizadolots View Post
I'm watching The Return of the King on TNT (yes, I own it...I never fail to enjoy watching something I love on a regular broadcast...it's like, I'm not the only one who loves it)...

I just watched the scene where Faramir took Frodo to Gondor....I remember we were all so appalled to learn (in advance, of course) that this had happened.

But, it utterly worked in the movie....when Frodo stood before the Nazgul and was about to put the ring on, then Sam tackled him!?! OMG!!! It was amazing.

So...you know...I'm thinking that absolute adherence to canon isn't nearly as important as making me clutch the hands of the poor people next to me, and making me gasp and making me laugh and making me cringe and making me weep with joy....

If it's beautiful, I'll forgive literary license because I know it has to happen.
This is actually funny that you would say that. I was just thinking about a quote from Rick Berman about canon be damned if it gets in teh way of telling a good story (or some such thing).
A little alteration to canon is fine as long as it doesn't hurt the spirit of the show. The Evil Dead series, if you have seen it, is a perefectly good example and is all the better for it. Jaws is another good example. If you have ever read the book, the movie is 100% times better for the massive character changes they did including removing the affair between Brody's wife and Hooper or Brody shooting Hooper when Hooper was being eaten by the shark.
On the other end of the scale you have Star Wars and what Lucas did to teh franchise. He killed canon with the last 3 movies and they were all the worse for it.
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Old 11-30-2008, 01:14 AM
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I was just thinking about a quote from Rick Berman about canon be damned if it gets in teh way of telling a good story (or some such thing).
Problem is, canon wasn't the only thing he damned with that attitude, which is the fuel in the engine of people like me insisting that canon ought to be adhered to. We saw how "damn the canon" worked out with Star Trek the last go 'round.

Maybe it'll be different with Abrams. But an axiom has it that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You could say, "but respecting canon is doing the same thing..." etc. Of course, that argument would come from people who justify throwing out Trek canon by claiming it never existed in the first place... *sigh.* Anyway. We'll see how it plays out... again.
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2008, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MonsieurHood View Post
"Too much to be erased without cause." How can you say in seven words, what I couldn't express with a hundred? But thank you.
I find that line of thought to be incompatible with the presence of Nimoy in the film.

Here is a man who was unafraid to fight for his character, both during the series (especially the third season) and through the films (both TMP and TWOK in particular), and for his character to remain consistent and behave in line with how he had been crafted over the years.

He didn't always win those fights, but he fought them and so I find it hard to believe he would now read a script with his best known character, see that it erases all the work he ever did, and agree to return to play the role after so long. It doesn't fit with Nimoy's approach to Spock and Trek at all.

There are clearly changes there, but I don't believe it represents the erasing of everything else.

Last edited by kevin : 11-30-2008 at 02:05 AM.
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  #16  
Old 11-30-2008, 02:01 AM
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Problem is, canon wasn't the only thing he damned with that attitude, which is the fuel in the engine of people like me insisting that canon ought to be adhered to. We saw how "damn the canon" worked out with Star Trek the last go 'round.
Very true and my warp core always goes overload when I think of many of his directions.

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Maybe it'll be different with Abrams. But an axiom has it that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You could say, "but respecting canon is doing the same thing..." etc. Of course, that argument would come from people who justify throwing out Trek canon by claiming it never existed in the first place... *sigh.* Anyway. We'll see how it plays out... again.
catch 22. Either way I am keeping my fingers crossed.
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  #17  
Old 11-30-2008, 02:04 AM
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i agree canon should apply only to the big chunks of the star trek cake,like warpdrive,tranporter,phasers but not to insignifident things like:
the deflector is too blue,the dish is to thick,the neck is too forward,kirk couldnt know how to drive before the episode this,or the crew doesnt look alike etc etc etc...
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  #18  
Old 11-30-2008, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
I find that line of thought to be incompatible with the presence of Nimoy in the film.

Here is a man who was unafraid to fight for his character, both during the series (especially the third season) and through the films (both TMP and TWOK in particular), and for his character to remain consistent and behave in line with how he had been crafted over the years.

He didn't always win those fights, but he fought them and so I find it hard to believe he would now read a script with his best known character, see that it erases all the work he ever did, and agree to return to play the role after so long. It doesn't fit with Nimoy's approach to Spock and Trek at all.

There are clearly changes there, but I don't believe it represents the erasing of everything else.
My statement was directed more towards people who come across with the attitude of: "Well YOUR Trek is gone. It doesn't matter what happened." I simply beg to differ because there is a lot of powerful stuff. I'm not a canon fanatic but I do intend to raise my voice when it comes to what I feel is important.
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  #19  
Old 11-30-2008, 08:43 AM
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Uh, nothing erases the past Trek. It's fiction. It's on VHS and DVD and soon to be Bloohoo or whatever. This isn't Back to the Future, where photographs disappear before your eyes. Nothing changes anything in Trek history before this movie. And if Nimoy is wrong, it's just a bad flick. Not the end of the universe as we know it.

Good grief, people. Get a grip.
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  #20  
Old 11-30-2008, 08:45 AM
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well said
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