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  #11  
Old 11-28-2008, 09:15 PM
TAReber TAReber is offline
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Spock served under Pike's command for 7 years, 4 months and 5 days as i learned. Its true Pikes accident was during kirks 5 year mission. Does anyone know what captain James Kirk served under first when he left the academy?

Kirk met Pike when he was promoted to fleet captain so its possible that Christopher Pikes 5 year mission started after kirk graduated from the academy making it possible for kirk to meet Spock after graduation also.

I guess its safe to conclude that Talos IV was the middle of Pikes 5 year mission 13 years ago. Possible making kirk around age 20, and that would mean that kirk met him at an earlier age. We can conclude that kirk was at least in the academy to be able to meet pike when he did.

I gotta figure this time line out, I gotta know if it is still possible for kirk to have a relationship with spock early on in his star fleet career. I would like to know if the movie is going to be possible to line up with the TOS episodes.
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  #12  
Old 11-28-2008, 10:40 PM
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Now be sure to say all that really nicely, or you'll have a pack of polite wolves ravaging your guts, and believe me, takes more than Advil to deal with that.
You not only seem to be holding up well to the challenging opinions, but absolutely thriving on it. Little point in trying to play the victim too.

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  #14  
Old 11-28-2008, 10:51 PM
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Now anyone who asks for a polite and friendly discussion is a polite wolf ravaging someone's guts. That trick does not work.
You, Horatio, have not been one of the wolves, and you can take pride in that. There have, however, been a few. And TAReber is right, I don't mind them one bit. You may think I'm sitting behind these posts of mine seething with rage, but the fact is that for the most part, I'm actually laughing my *** off and having a great time.
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  #15  
Old 11-28-2008, 11:34 PM
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You, Horatio, have not been one of the wolves, and you can take pride in that. There have, however, been a few. And TAReber is right, I don't mind them one bit. You may think I'm sitting behind these posts of mine seething with rage, but the fact is that for the most part, I'm actually laughing my *** off and having a great time.
I thought you were ravaging the ginger?
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  #16  
Old 11-29-2008, 12:14 AM
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I have to let her up to bring me a beer from time to time.
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  #17  
Old 11-29-2008, 04:56 AM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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Originally Posted by kjh1701 View Post
Yep, I totally agree. Spock should have served about 11 years under Captain Pike, originally as a junior science officer, before James Kirk ever showed up. Pike's First Officer was Number One. And Sulu was in astrosciences. And the Medical Officer was Dr. Boyce, not McCoy. (Hell, if you wanted to get really techincal, Dr. Piper was in between there too - after Boyce in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" before McCoy arrived) And there was no Uhura or Chekov either.

But like you said...NOOoooo...Everything's different now. It's magic - the old team just magically gets dropped in there all together at the same time! So don't expect Finnegan, Gary Mitchell, or anyone else. Like I keep getting told, they take great pride in telling us "This ain't your father's Star Trek."

But don't start complaining - you'll get yelled at for being a Canonist, Canonista, Loyalist, ar any number of other names for daring to invoke loyalty to all the stuff you used to know...

And I agree - I don't care what they say - that just isn't the Enterprise.

And it NEVER will be.
Agreed. JJ and co. care nothing about the established Star Trek timeline. I'll bet Talos IV is not even mentioned in this film. It will probably be erased along with everything else we know as fact in the Star Trek universe. Carol Marcus will be absent, as will Gary Mitchell and any other character that Kirk mentioned in TOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAReber View Post
Spock served under Pike's command for 7 years, 4 months and 5 days as i learned. Its true Pikes accident was during kirks 5 year mission. Does anyone know what captain James Kirk served under first when he left the academy?

Kirk met Pike when he was promoted to fleet captain so its possible that Christopher Pikes 5 year mission started after kirk graduated from the academy making it possible for kirk to meet Spock after graduation also.

I guess its safe to conclude that Talos IV was the middle of Pikes 5 year mission 13 years ago. Possible making kirk around age 20, and that would mean that kirk met him at an earlier age. We can conclude that kirk was at least in the academy to be able to meet pike when he did.

I gotta figure this time line out, I gotta know if it is still possible for kirk to have a relationship with spock early on in his star fleet career. I would like to know if the movie is going to be possible to line up with the TOS episodes.
Spock served under Captain Pike for 11 years, 4 months, 5 days. the events on Talos IV (which probably never happened, according to the new movie) happened 13 years prior to "The Menagerie" which was set in 2267. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Kirk was an ensign aboard the Republic and later served on the Farragut under Captain Garrovik prior to commanding the Enterprise. You'll never figure the timeline out after seeing this movie. And no, this new movie will not line up with the established history set in the TOS episodes.
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  #18  
Old 11-29-2008, 05:36 AM
kjh1701 kjh1701 is offline
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Originally Posted by TAReber View Post
Spock served under Pike's command for 7 years, 4 months and 5 days as i learned. Its true Pikes accident was during kirks 5 year mission. Does anyone know what captain James Kirk served under first when he left the academy?

Kirk met Pike when he was promoted to fleet captain so its possible that Christopher Pikes 5 year mission started after kirk graduated from the academy making it possible for kirk to meet Spock after graduation also.

I guess its safe to conclude that Talos IV was the middle of Pikes 5 year mission 13 years ago. Possible making kirk around age 20, and that would mean that kirk met him at an earlier age. We can conclude that kirk was at least in the academy to be able to meet pike when he did.

I gotta figure this time line out, I gotta know if it is still possible for kirk to have a relationship with spock early on in his star fleet career. I would like to know if the movie is going to be possible to line up with the TOS episodes.
Ok, I'm gonna go out on a limb here, so non-Canonites get your slings and rocks ready, but here goes...

From TOS episodes, you can piece together some of the history.

In the episode "The Conscience of the King," Kirk was a young teenager living on Tarsus IV when Governor Kodos ordered the execution of 8,000 colonists. So he was already out in the galaxy as a teenager, but later returned to Earth (I guess in time to learn how to drive on an antique Corvette, but then forget how to drive a Studebaker when he grows up...)

In "The Apple" a red shirt security officer named Mallory gets killed by Vaal. Kirk says that Mallory's father helped get him into Starfleet Academy, so he returned the favor by getting Mallory aboard his Enterprise. At the Academy, he meets Gary Mitchell in a philosophy class, according to "Where No Man Has Gone Before."

Accroding to "Court Martial," the computer mentions Kirk's record and says that he particpated in a peace mission to Axanar and was awarded the Palm Leaf of Axanar on his uniform while he was still attending the Academy. You also hear the story about Finnegan that has been mentioned - he was the upperclassman who bullied Kirk at the Academy, according to "Shore Leave." You also know that he was taught at the Academy by John Gill ("Patterns of Force").

Kirk also became friends with Lieutenant Benjamin Finney, according to the episode "Court Martial," and that they served together on the USS Republic, Kirk as a young ensign. So that had to take place before his assignment to the USS Enterprise.

The next assignment you can establish for Kirk is from TOS episode "Obsession." Kirk served on the USS Farragut under Captain Garrovick as a lieutenant and tactical officer. That's the epsidoe with the "vampire cloud" that kills by devouring red blood cells. In that episode, we learn that Captain Garrovick's son is now serving on the USS Enterprise as an Ensign. In "Obsession," Kirk makes the following quote, that Captain Garrovick was, "my commanding officer from the day I left the Academy..."

There was also "A Private Little War," where it was mentioned that Kirk commanded his first planetary survey mission on the planet Neural as a young lieutenant and met Tyree, thirteen years before the episode took place. I don't know if they actually say the name of the ship on which he was serving, however.

I don't know if you can establish the exact math for dates and years between all of these event to create a "real" timeline. But the events themselves are all based on actual episodes and are mentioned in the dialog from those episodes, so I take them as fact. And clearly, according to what was mentioned, Kirk had a career and served on at least two vessels - the USS Farragut and the USS Republic before he ever arrived on the USS Enterprise to assume command.

As for Captain Pike, it looks like you got the history correct. And if you watch "The Cage," you will see that Spock is not the First Officer at that time. During the events of "The Cage," Number One is the First Officer, Dr. Boyce is Chief Medical Office and Scotty was Chief Engineer.

The first time you see Kirk commanding the USS Enterprise is in TOS episode "Where No Man has Gone Before." Kirk doesn't "officially" acknowledge Spock as First Office, but I guess you can assume his status, based on how Kirk works so closely with him. At that time Dr. Mark Piper was Chief Medical Officer, and Lieutenant Sulu was in astrosciences and not a helmsman. Uhura was not the Communications Officer either.

In TOS epsiode "The Corbomite Manneuver," most of the crew fall into place. Uhura is Communications Officer, Sulu is at the Helm and McCoy is now Chief Medical Officer.

Chekov is harder to place. Khan recognized him in TWOK even though you don't see Chekov in "Space Seed." But if you want to get technical, Chekov did not know Harry Mudd in TOS "I, Mudd." So he must have arrived on the USS Enterprise somewhere between "Mudd's Women" and "I, Mudd."

Hope that helps you a little bit. Also hope that it doesn't annoy the non-Canonites too terribly much.

Let the rock-slinging begin!

Last edited by kjh1701 : 11-29-2008 at 06:41 AM.
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  #19  
Old 11-29-2008, 06:02 AM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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That was a very good synopsis. Couldn't have done it better myself. At any rate, it's clear that JJ has taken enormous liberties with established Star Trek history. It is also clear just from the trailer and the look of the ship and sets that this movie will definitely not slot neatly into established Star Trek history in any way shape or form. And just out of curiosity, has anyone even thought about Kirk's older brother, George Samuel Kirk? Will he be mentioned? Probably not. Kirk will more than likely be an only child in this new version of the old Trek.
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  #20  
Old 11-29-2008, 06:14 AM
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Which means that this Kirk isn't the same Kirk we spent 79 episodes and 6 films watching. I don't know... is this an origins story? A reboot? No idea.
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