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  #81  
Old 11-25-2008, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mmoore View Post
Not everyone will be confused by relatively minor inconsistencies. Just the canon nazis.
So it wouldn't bother you if in the first chapter of a book the main villain appeared and had a huge fight with the protagonist, but in the second chapter the protagonist claimed that he had never had such a fight and had never even heard of the villain in his life? Man you must read some lame stories.
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  #82  
Old 11-25-2008, 01:42 PM
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Read my previous post please, and do check wikipedia too
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  #83  
Old 11-25-2008, 01:43 PM
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K since you might not be inclined here is for the Fellowship of the Rings the changes made
Jackson, Walsh and Boyens made numerous changes to the story, for purposes of pacing and character development. Jackson said his main desire was to make a film focused primarily on Frodo and the Ring, the "backbone" of the story.[13] The prologue condenses Tolkien's backstory, in which The Last Alliance's seven year siege of the Barad-dûr is a single battle, where Elendil is simply killed by Sauron, and his defeat is a quick swipe from Isildur using the broken Narsil. Sauron is shown to explode, though Tolkien only said his spirit flees.[14] Isildur keeps the One Ring as a commemorative, but is not corrupted by it as described in the narration. He is advised to destroy the Ring, but nothing is said of him and Elrond actually going to the Cracks of Doom as shown later on with Elrond and Gandalf's discussion.[15]
Events at the beginning of the film are condensed or omitted altogether. In the book, the time between Gandalf leaving the Ring to Frodo and returning to reveal its inscription is 17 years, which is compressed for timing reasons.[16] Frodo also spends a few months preparing for his journey to Bree which is compressed to a day, to increase dramatic tension. Also compressed is the time between Frodo and Sam leaving Bag End and their meeting Merry and Pippin. Characters such as Tom Bombadil are left out to simplify the plot reasons and increase the threat of the Ringwraiths. Such sequences are left out to make time to introduce Saruman, who in the book only appears in flashback until The Two Towers. Saruman's role is enhanced: he is to blame for the blizzard on Caradhras, a role taken from Sauron and/or Caradhras itself in the book. Gandalf's capture by Saruman is also expanded with a fight sequence.
A significant new addition is that Aragorn must overcome his self-doubt to claim the kingship. This element is not present in the book, where Aragorn intends to claim the throne at an appropriate time. In the book he reforges Narsil immediately when he joins the Fellowship, but this event is held over until The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King in film. This was done because of Peter Jackson's belief in "character growth", the idea that every character must change or learn something over the course of the story. Arwen Evenstar also has a greater role in the film, replacing the book's character of Glorfindel in rescuing Frodo. Elrond is also different from his counterpart in the printed novel; in the film he doubts the strength of Men to survive without a King. Jackson also shortens the Council of Elrond establishing the Ring quest, by moving exposition from the chapter into earlier parts of the film.
The tone of the Moria sequence was altered. Although in the book the Fellowship only realize all the Dwarves are dead once they reach Balin's tomb, the filmmakers chose to use foreshadowing devices instead. Gandalf says to Gimli he would prefer not to enter Moria, and Saruman has a telepathic communication with Gandalf, and also reveals an illustration of the Balrog in one of his books. The corpses of the dwarves are instantly shown as the Fellowship enter Moria.[17]
The book simply stops in terms of dramatic structure, as Tolkien wrote it as a single story published as three volumes. Jackson's finale is played as a climactic battle, to which he introduces the (unnamed) antagonist referred to as Lurtz in the script. In the book the battle leading to Boromir's death is told in flashback in the second volume, but in the film their encounter is shown in real time. Adding to the ending before the wait for the next film, Aragorn is shown as aware of Frodo's decision to leave.
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  #84  
Old 11-25-2008, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by radoskal View Post
So it wouldn't bother you if in the first chapter of a book the main villain appeared and had a huge fight with the protagonist, but in the second chapter the protagonist claimed that he had never had such a fight and had never even heard of the villain in his life? Man you must read some lame stories.
Please. Talk down to me some more. I love that.

We're talking about over 40 years of stuff here. By the time most people get halfway through (assuming they ever would) they won't remember half of what they've seen anyway. Not everyone is a canon nazi.
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  #85  
Old 11-25-2008, 01:50 PM
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No that is the wrong idea, All adaptations of novels to movies have changes. Go to wikipedia and search the various hatchet jobs Peter Jackson did to LOTR. He preserved the crux of LOTR and drew new fans to Tolkiens classic, something which i have not read but now know thru his vision. Star Trek will change, its central theme of the ideals of the Federation and the people who work in it should not. I have complete faith in JJ to save that. Canon? Its an irritation to some maybe, but.....................get used to it. Not stays the same, not logical my friend
right and I really don't care if in A Trek comic kirk meets pike when he is 12 or 35 or 80.

Peter Jackson's filmed LOTR is not tolkiens written work, they are a completely different medium but if someone were to take Tolkiens book, hack out a couple pages and write something else in their stead, then say this is the real lord of the rings now, well that would bother me and thats what I fear will happen to Trek.

What is and has been on the screen previously, all of which has followed a more or less consistent continuity IS the story of Star Trek and I'd like to see it maintained as just that a continuing and consistent story.
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  #86  
Old 11-25-2008, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mmoore View Post
Please. Talk down to me some more. I love that.

We're talking about over 40 years of stuff here. By the time most people get halfway through (assuming they ever would) they won't remember half of what they've seen anyway. Not everyone is a canon nazi.
I'm not talking down to you, i'm trying to illustrate my point in a straightforward manner that point being once again, that consistency and continuity are very important if a story and or fictional universe are to be made believable. I think JJ and Co. could have very easily maintained consistency with other Trek and yet they chose not to in certain instances, which I find needless and disapointing.
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Last edited by radoskal : 11-25-2008 at 02:01 PM.
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  #87  
Old 11-25-2008, 01:57 PM
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Sigh..................... it is sad that fans no longer want Trek to spread out. Peter Jackson did a favour to LOTR, do you know how many people knew of his work before Jackson made the movie? 0, now everyone does. True they may not be zealouts walking around with Gandalf's stick, but the important thing is that they know of the story and appreciate this work. That is after all what Roddenberry wanted. That is what we all should want, not nitpick on places of birth and age. Sigh....
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  #88  
Old 11-25-2008, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Frenzy View Post
Sigh..................... it is sad that fans no longer want Trek to spread out. Peter Jackson did a favour to LOTR, do you know how many people knew of his work before Jackson made the movie? 0, now everyone does. True they may not be zealouts walking around with Gandalf's stick, but the important thing is that they know of the story and appreciate this work. That is after all what Roddenberry wanted. That is what we all should want, not nitpick on places of birth and age. Sigh....
Straightforward question Frenzy...which is correct within the context of the Star Trek universe..some of the events pictured in the new Trek Trailer and subsequent film to be released in 2009, or the events pictured in the two part TOS episode the Managerie...and if one superscedes the other which is correct within the context of trek continuity? can Spcok have served aboard the enterprise under Pike for 11 years before James T. Kirk was put in command, if Kirk is telling Spock to buckle up as he takes the enterprise into battle wearing command gold while he's suposedly still a cadet...I don't know...something about it just doesn't make sense...I hope that they account for these things, and if they do I will be very happy indeed, but it has to make sense, I will not throw away the managerie, or balance of terror, or A peice of the action as somehow miraculously no longer having taken place in the trek timeline...you'll be asking me to throw away encounter at farpoint next...and then convince me that DS9 is commanded by a white guy.
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  #89  
Old 11-25-2008, 02:29 PM
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Well does Benjamin Sisko need to be black for people to understand his charecter and the series in general? TAS is not canon but we still see it, dont we? Accepting canon does not mean we have to stick our fingers in our ears and scream out like Stephen Colbert.

Dont forget your Menagerie episode or "The Cage" was the original TOS pitch changed because it was rejected. People can be so obtuse sometimes. Roddenberry made superficial changes to the episode and made it a new one so that he could save production costs......now its irrefutable canon? Strange! A layman would say it was just some bs to make the story blend in to our timeline.

My point is, look at the big picture. A fanboy movie does no help to Trek. A big budget Trek movie will do wonders to the frachise. Dont be a booer who says let Trek die like my childhood Trek was. Let it live a new avatar! Live long and prosper remember? Prosper!! Not fraking stagnate and die!!
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  #90  
Old 11-25-2008, 02:39 PM
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Well we shall see won't we I personally hope that this film is amazing, and in my heart of hearts I also hope that it Preserves the continuing story that has somehow been held together for forty + years, and doesn't throw it to the wind. We'll see.
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