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  #11  
Old 11-20-2008, 12:25 PM
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My outlook is that if you enjoy TREK, then you are a fan and it doesn't matter a scrap whether you are 50 or 10. I have watched it from the very first episode in the 1960's and I don't consider myself an expert or better than someone who has just been introduced to the Genre.
I agree that silly small things like gearshift knobs and such are NOT that important in the scheme of things.
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2008, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kjh1701 View Post
Like the message in "Relics," just have a little respect for the past.
How can you say they haven't had respect for the past when you haven't even seen the finished film yet?

There's no possible way anyone can determine they haven't had respect for the past from two whole minutes of footage edited together to make a trailer.
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  #13  
Old 11-20-2008, 02:49 PM
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But as for the little things...

Scotty and Data refer to the Aldebaran whiskey as "it is...it is...it is green," which refers to the original series episode "By Any Other Name" where Scotty tries to get one of the Kelvans drunk and says the exact same line.

Scotty talks to Geordi about multiplying his repair estimates by a factor of four in order to earn a reputaion as a "miracle worker," referring to the comment he made to Kirk about repairing the Enterprise in Star Trek III.

There are also references to the Elaan of Troyius from the episode of the same name, and "The Naked Time," and "Wolf in Fold." And for TNG fans, you get to hear the last part of Geordi telling Scotty about Leah Brahms and "souring the milk" for the creature attached to their hull in "Galaxy's Child."

Now do you need to know all of these pointless, trivial references to get the message of "Relics?" No, you don't. It's still a good story for anyone who watches it.

That's the problem I'm having right now. Do a reboot, that's fine. You can tell a million really great stories without changing what already has been established. If you're a good storyteller, you don't need to change what has already been established in order to drive a truly creative plot.

Like the message in "Relics," just have a little respect for the past.
I appreciate the TNG episode "Relics" even more now after reading this.

All those little connections between TOS and TNG that I didn't even know were there.

I still think the meaning behind the story is light years more important than the story itself, but your addition of references within the episode, the "little things" really does feel like iceing on the cake now.

Thank you.
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  #14  
Old 11-20-2008, 02:55 PM
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When has Kirk been a rebel? Can some one point out the times in TOS when Kirk has been a rebel. Once that's done we can have some more discussion about how much of a rebel Kirk is, or is not. Thanks.

P.S. According to a lot of people, Kirk is a Herbert, which is far from a rebel.
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  #15  
Old 11-20-2008, 03:00 PM
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When has Kirk been a rebel? Can some one point out the times in TOS when Kirk has been a rebel. Once that's done we can have some more discussion about how much of a rebel Kirk is, or is not. Thanks.

P.S. According to a lot of people, Kirk is a Herbert, which is far from a rebel.
Is the term "reckless adventurer" more to your liking?

Cus that's what I meant.
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  #16  
Old 11-20-2008, 06:20 PM
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When has Kirk been a rebel? Can some one point out the times in TOS when Kirk has been a rebel. Once that's done we can have some more discussion about how much of a rebel Kirk is, or is not. Thanks.
You can't be serious? Have you actually watched TOS?

Start with Amok Time, in which Kirk jeopardizes his career by disobeying a direct order to the contrary from Starfleet, and proceeds with all possible speed to Vulcan.

Only at the end of this insubordination Kirk is let off the hook for disobeying orders when Starfleet retroactively grants permission to divert to Vulcan at T'Pau's request.

The trend extends throughout his career, including a little art house movie called STAR TREK IV you may have heard of in which he rebelled against Starfleet authority again to save the planet. In light of their recent heroics, all charges facing his crew were dismissed, but one remained against Admiral Kirk: disobeying the orders of a superior officer. Kirk's 'punishment' was a permanent reduction in rank to captain and a return to the duty that had served the Federation so well, starship command.

A good Googling on your own will reveal further evidence.
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  #17  
Old 11-21-2008, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JBElliott View Post
When has Kirk been a rebel? Can some one point out the times in TOS when Kirk has been a rebel. Once that's done we can have some more discussion about how much of a rebel Kirk is, or is not. Thanks.

P.S. According to a lot of people, Kirk is a Herbert, which is far from a rebel.
You're joking right? I can't tell.

Just off the top of my head, in Trek III, they send the 'great experiment' after him to keep him from rescuing his friend, whom starfleet is basically denying him from saving.

Excelsior Capt: "Kirk, if you do this, you'll never sit in the Captain's chair again."

Kirk: "Warp Speed."

If that's not a rebellious act I don't know what is.
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  #18  
Old 11-21-2008, 01:21 AM
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P.S. According to a lot of people, Kirk is a Herbert, which is far from a rebel.
Those who thought Kirk was a Herbert turned out to wrong about a lot of things, but in my humble opinion we have a very large number of Herberts here.
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  #19  
Old 11-21-2008, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by RedShirtsRuS View Post
Is the term "reckless adventurer" more to your liking?

Cus that's what I meant.
Okay then, point out TOS episodes where Kirk was a "reckless adventurer".
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  #20  
Old 11-21-2008, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by MissionTrek08 View Post
You can't be serious? Have you actually watched TOS?

Start with Amok Time, in which Kirk jeopardizes his career by disobeying a direct order to the contrary from Starfleet, and proceeds with all possible speed to Vulcan.

Only at the end of this insubordination Kirk is let off the hook for disobeying orders when Starfleet retroactively grants permission to divert to Vulcan at T'Pau's request.

The trend extends throughout his career, including a little art house movie called STAR TREK IV you may have heard of in which he rebelled against Starfleet authority again to save the planet. In light of their recent heroics, all charges facing his crew were dismissed, but one remained against Admiral Kirk: disobeying the orders of a superior officer. Kirk's 'punishment' was a permanent reduction in rank to captain and a return to the duty that had served the Federation so well, starship command.

A good Googling on your own will reveal further evidence.
I've watched every episode of TOS several times. Those aren't very good examples since every time Kirk was vindicated, thus indicating he's not a rebel, or at least not much of one.

In TOS the young crowd though Kirk was anything but a rebel.
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