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  #31  
Old 11-16-2008, 04:43 PM
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The thread starters
Oh. Sometimes I forget the original thread topic. you know what he meant though!
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  #32  
Old 11-16-2008, 04:56 PM
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Yeah i did, Just a reminder to others and myself that JJ is the painter and the writers are the vision. Or vice versa hehe.
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  #33  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:00 PM
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IIRC, that ship was the USS T'kumbra. A Nebula-class starship.

Personally, I don't like the message that things like that send. The United Federation of Planets is supposed to be a inclusive, democratic government that values diversity. The very idea that ships would be crewed solely by one species is troubling.…

IMO, the only movie that came close to showing the diversity of the Federation was ST: The Voyage Home. The scences of the Federation Council show a VERY diverse group, including all of the races I list above and more. If the government is diverse, why can't Starfleet be?
IIRC, the subject of starship diversity has been explored in canon before, although I forget exactly where. It seems to me that no starship is crewed entirely by members of one race or another (dialog to the contrary would seem to indicate a use of slight hyperbole on the part of the speaker); rather starships are staffed at a diversity of around ten per cent, therefore on the Enterprise, for instance, there would be one alien crewmember for every nine humans. I seem to recall that this allowed personnel to serve a majority of their time around their own species, in order to maintain a healthy comfort level, while allowing those who elected to do so, to serve among relative aliens.

Also, from a practical standpoint, if interspecies conflict ever did give rise to an us/them fracturing of a ship's crew, the majority species should have sufficient numbers to maintain control of the ship until a starbase can be reached and arbitration could be held. Then again, with this particular staffing system, that kind of thing should never happen, again on account of the numbers involved.
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  #34  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by AJBlue98 View Post
IIRC, the subject of starship diversity has been explored in canon before, although I forget exactly where. It seems to me that no starship is crewed entirely by members of one race or another (dialog to the contrary would seem to indicate a use of slight hyperbole on the part of the speaker); rather starships are staffed at a diversity of around ten per cent, therefore on the Enterprise, for instance, there would be one alien crewmember for every nine humans. I seem to recall that this allowed personnel to serve a majority of their time around their own species, in order to maintain a healthy comfort level, while allowing those who elected to do so, to serve among relative aliens.

Also, from a practical standpoint, if interspecies conflict ever did give rise to an us/them fracturing of a ship's crew, the majority species should have sufficient numbers to maintain control of the ship until a starbase can be reached and arbitration could be held. Then again, with this particular staffing system, that kind of thing should never happen, again on account of the numbers involved.
I am not familiar with the source for those statistics. Are they canon or do they come from a semi-canon source?

In terms of interspecies conflict, by the time of Kirk or later Jean Luc Picard these species had been interacting together for a few centuries. Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, and other members had whole generations born knowing nothing but the Federation. The first years of a combined Federation Starfleet probably had some interspecies conflicts, but those incidents would probably be nothing but a historical footnote by the 24th Century.
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  #35  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post
Why would Vulcan, Andoria, Tellar and Alpha Centauri give up their fleets and let Earth's Starfleet handle everything?
I doubt that's the case.

In my mind, the Federation absorbed all the interstellar military/exploration services from its member planets (Starfleet, the Vulcan High Command, the Andorian Imperial Guard, et cetera), leaving each with its own planetary defence force (the UESN [United Earth Space Navy], whose medics served on mostly-human starships such as the U.S.S. Enterprise as late as the mid-2200s, for instance). The name and insignia of Starfleet seems to have been a relatively natural choice for the fledgling UFP, as it was clearly the most generically-named of all the service fleets in 2161 and was already in use with signage, branding, rank-and-file structure, et cetera.
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  #36  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:38 PM
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Then why do all Starfleet vessels have furniture, signs, consoles for humans and english letters on the hull?
I believe that standard signage arose as a consequence of Starfleet's genesis on Earth. In any case, it would be necessary for any such peace-keeping force to have a standardized language, to ensure equal communication among all members of the force.

As for interior design, that's easily explained by the simple fact that most Federation member worlds are inhabited by humanoids. I'm pretty sure that if you saw a Starfleet ship crewed mostly by Rakelli (just for argument’s sake) that the interior would be suitably adapted.
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  #37  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by United Federation View Post
I am not familiar with the source for those statistics. Are they canon or do they come from a semi-canon source?
As I said, I’m not 100% sure where I heard it, but I’m pretty sure that it was an episode of TAS, TNG, or DS9 that dealt with a new species’ first contact with the Federation, or their admission, or something like that.

That said, it might’ve been a semi-canon source, such as a book, however (if you haven’t found this out about me yet), I’ll take my canon bendy if it means a good story.

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In terms of interspecies conflict, by the time of Kirk or later Jean Luc Picard these species had been interacting together for a few centuries. Humans, Vulcans, Andorians, and other members had whole generations born knowing nothing but the Federation. The first years of a combined Federation Starfleet probably had some interspecies conflicts, but those incidents would probably be nothing but a historical footnote by the 24th Century.
Old habits, y’know…

But seriously, you’re right about humans, Andorians, Vulcans, and Tellarites, however there are always new species being admitted to the UFP, so it would be reasonable (under that same logic) to continue the practice.

Also, there’s none so divisive an issue as forcing people into relationships that they don’t want. Look at the American Revolution, or desegregation in the United States in the 1960s, or the Irish defeat of the European Constitution. Whether it’s taxation without representation, or being forced to sit next to someone whose skin is a different colour, or ceding sovereignty to a super-national organization, people tend to become extremely angry when they lose their right to choose.

This would be a good incentive to continue less diverse starships as a common practice, to allow especially members of newer members of the Federation an opportunity to acclimate themselves at their own pace.

In any case, I’m sure that there are at least a few starships whose crews are much more diverse, to allow those who wish to work with as many relatively-alien species as possible; a rule never precludes exception.
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  #38  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:06 PM
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Extremely diverse crews also present more difficulties. I know Titan is not canon, but there are examples in those books regarding different environmental needs and communication difficulties. Having a ship with a mojority of one species probably does help streamline daily ship business.
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  #39  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post
Then why do all Starfleet vessels have furniture, signs, consoles for humans and english letters on the hull?
That's a good point. I've always seen it as such: the show was made for an American audience. Later it was dubbed so people could watch it in other languages. I have a hard time figuring that the language of the future won't be English, so I assume (yeah yeah I know what can of worms that opens) that others have just as hard a time imagining the language of the future being different from the one they speak. To the point, I always imagined that people in Trek spoke a totally different language than English. Maybe a future language that was adopted as Earth Standard, or even Federation standard! I figure the signs are only shown in English for our benefit, just as lots of the alien dialogue is in English for our benefit (the universal translater is handy, but it's not omnipresent).

Somebody let me know if this doesn't make sense; I'm tired and I dunno how coherent I am lol.
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  #40  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Grelev View Post
That's a good point. I've always seen it as such: the show was made for an American audience. Later it was dubbed so people could watch it in other languages. I have a hard time figuring that the language of the future won't be English, so I assume (yeah yeah I know what can of worms that opens) that others have just as hard a time imagining the language of the future being different from the one they speak. To the point, I always imagined that people in Trek spoke a totally different language than English. Maybe a future language that was adopted as Earth Standard, or even Federation standard! I figure the signs are only shown in English for our benefit, just as lots of the alien dialogue is in English for our benefit (the universal translater is handy, but it's not omnipresent).

Somebody let me know if this doesn't make sense; I'm tired and I dunno how coherent I am lol.
Makes sense to me
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