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  #21  
Old 11-07-2008, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mjcrawford View Post
but in the early movies we clearly see that it runs the entire length of the secondary hull, plus vertically all the way up to the impulse engine.
Where are you getting this info from? I have never seen this in any diagrams nor have seen anyone say this before.
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  #22  
Old 11-07-2008, 08:48 AM
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Well, the problem is that you need a place for the ‘warp core’ to exist. In TOS era it is well established that the warp core is a very large piece of hardware, we only see is through the grate in TOS (a grate that Scotty seams fond of grabbing onto when the ship shakes) but in the early movies we clearly see that it runs the entire length of the secondary hull, plus vertically all the way up to the impulse engine. If you were to design a single nacelle’ed ship, it would still need a warp core, presumably at least half the size of the warp core on the Enterprise.

Since the primary hull is a fairly standard layout (crew quarters, labs, sick bay, weapons, transporter rooms, bridge) you can’t just stick something that big into the primary hull without drastically increasing the size of the hull (much like the back half of the Reliant in ST:TWoK) and from what we can see of the Kelvin it appears to be a very standard primary hull design except it appears to be substantially smaller then the hull on Enterprise (based on the relative size of the bridge) so for the warp core to be on the ship you must have a place to put it, hence the upper section is a secondary hull.

The other thing that I do not understand from those that are arguing about if this has two nacelles or one, is that the answer seams blatantly obvious. If you look at the upper section the front is clearly visible, and it is glowing in a pattern that is EXTREAMLY consistent with the front of every secondary hull in every era with a blue outer ring and an inner section that has some kind of antenna jutting out. If this were a warp nacelle, it would be the first to ever be seen with a concave front and the lighting makes it very clear that it is indeed concave. Meanwhile, even though the bottom section is hard to see behind the primary hull, it is also consistent with a TOS era warp nacelle in that it is clearly convex in shape based on the lighting, and appears to be glowing in an orange/red color which is the colors of EVERY warp nacelle fronts we have ever seen. The only thing we cannot really tell based on the angle of the shot is the overall length of the warp nacelle and secondary hull.

Of course, this is all fictional artwork so they can technically do whatever the heck they want to, but assuming that they are at least attempting to follow a logical pattern based on what we have already seen in Trek up to now, it is only logical that this is a single nacelle’ed ship with a secondary hull above the primary and parallel to the nacelle.
I share your opinion about engineering section on top, nacelle above the saucer. Very good points about why the vertical warp core has to be in the second hull. But what about the Reliant then, where did she have her warp core. We never saw the engineering section of a pure-saucer design like the Miranda-class, so perhaps they have a horizontal warp core like the NX-01?
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  #23  
Old 11-07-2008, 08:57 AM
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Why wouldn't they have a horizontal warp core? Orientation is nothing special in space.
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  #24  
Old 11-07-2008, 09:11 AM
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Why wouldn't they have a horizontal warp core? Orientation is nothing special in space.
I only wanted to say that a pure-saucer ship like the NX-01 had a horizontal warp-core, so it makes sense to assume the same for other pure-saucer design like the Miranda-class.
So IF the Kelvin should have two nacelles (which is unlikely IMO) it would be absolutely OK because we have seen other pure-saucer designs before too.
Besides, wasn't the warp core in TOS not also horizontal?
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  #25  
Old 11-07-2008, 09:14 AM
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The movie shows Miranda having a vertical warp core like the Enterprise did.
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  #26  
Old 11-07-2008, 09:34 AM
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I apologize, my bad memory. Was it a quick shot during the battle, were they just used the engineering set of the E?
One could probably fit a vertical core into the saucer, at least it'd work for the ENT-D (after a quick glance into the non-canonical tech manual) but a horizontal core like the ones of the NX-class would fit better. And I guess it is nice to not have the antimatter injectors on deck 2, makes the people on the bridge perhaps a little edgy
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  #27  
Old 11-07-2008, 09:40 AM
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I apologize, my bad memory. Was it a quick shot during the battle, were they just used the engineering set of the E?
One could probably fit a vertical core into the saucer, at least it'd work for the ENT-D (after a quick glance into the non-canonical tech manual) but a horizontal core like the ones of the NX-class would fit better. And I guess it is nice to not have the antimatter injectors on deck 2, makes the people on the bridge perhaps a little edgy
Yeah...as the Enterprise fired on the Reliant you see a guy falling from railing in the upper levels of the warp core. This was of couse the same set. This was one of the last few hits the Reliant takes. In fact if my memory serves...they showed seens of the weapons pod being shot and then the guy falling off the railing to the right and the vertical core to the left. (for some reason I was paying attention to this. But I will of course verify it.
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  #28  
Old 11-07-2008, 10:29 AM
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It could be a similar but smaller version of a vertical core. At the rear, Reliant's saucer had a superstructure behind the dome probably taking it's height to around 6 or 7 decks high at the back of the saucer. If the vertical core was located there, then it could have a similar design as the Constitution class.
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  #29  
Old 11-07-2008, 10:36 AM
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I concur.
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  #30  
Old 11-07-2008, 12:49 PM
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In TOS I seem to recall they indicated the reactions took place in the nacelles themselves, then changed that in the movies.
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