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  #11  
Old 11-05-2008, 10:30 PM
mjcrawford mjcrawford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aef6259 View Post
The scout ship Idea makes sence - I assume you are refering the Hermes Class.
I'm still curious if we are looking at a nacelle or an engineering hull.

I hope this is a nacelle and a 2 nacelle ship. I was never a big fan of the Idea of single nacelle concept.

See the "Roddenberry's Design Rules" about 1/3 of the way down this page:
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/design.htm

If the Reliant came from the ‘Class 1 tug’ design from the technical manual (which I think is likely) than the Kelvin would be a logical extrapolation from the ‘Class 1 scout’ design.
I had not herd it called the ‘Hermes Class’ before (not being a bookworm or anything, I just happen to remember the scout class from the technical manual, which I used to have a first printing of) however you are correct, that is the class I was thinking of note the pic:

http://startrek.wikia.com/wiki/Hermes_class_scout

obviously this is a non-cannon ship since it only appeared in the technical manual not on film, although there is reference to scout ships in ST:TMP we just never see them. (I distantly remember a rendezvous with the ‘Scout Revere’ in the chatter from Epsilon 9 station)

the only real problem with the design from the technical manual is that there is no engineering deck, adding a secondary hull above the primary and parallel with the warp nacelle would solve that issue. If you add a secondary hull on top, you can eliminate the dorky looking dish sticking out of the bottom of the primary hull, and still preserve the rest of the original design.

As for the ‘Design rules’ well quite frankly all old rules are out the window. And even the rules mentioned in the list have been violated in various shows. Heck I think that the Defiant breaks almost all of the rules.
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  #12  
Old 11-05-2008, 10:51 PM
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ehh. it looks the same, and I have to agree with Livingston, it does look like a star. Which, if it is, just looks pretty cool.
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  #13  
Old 11-06-2008, 05:32 AM
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noone's really sure, it might be the bussard cap, might be something else entirely
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  #14  
Old 11-06-2008, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omegaman View Post
Clearer details of the Kelvin.
I'll say this...I think it looks like a ship from the right period...
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  #15  
Old 11-06-2008, 10:35 AM
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I mentioned this in the other thread, but unless anyone has information to the contrary- I don't think a single-nacelle ship would have a secondary hull, and any ship with a secondary hull should probably have more than one warp nacelle.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:55 AM
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Not that disagree...but what is your reasoning.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:22 AM
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One thing I like about the Kelvin is that it has the whitish hull from the first 6 movies. It doesn't have that metallic sheen the Enterprise has in the teaser trailer. But the Enterprise and the ships in the movie may look different from the Kelvin since the Kelvin was in service before Kirk was born.
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  #18  
Old 11-06-2008, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
Not that disagree...but what is your reasoning.

Aside from asthetics and balance, granted this from non-canon sources (starship recognition guides/technical manuals), but I have never seen a ship design utilizing a primary-secondary hull configuration where there were fewer than two nacelles, and any ship with one nacelle only had a primary (solitary) hull. And besides that, just think about it... the NX-01 was only a primary hull and it had 2. Why would they go backwards 100 years later?
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:11 PM
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I think that it is a hard job to create a new Starship in the Trek universe, especially in the pre-TOS era. If you do something familiar, some people will cry foul, that looks like XYZ and if you something new, like this one nacelle attached to the hull (or two nacelles, we know pretty much nothing yet) some will cry foul, this violates established starship design rules.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2008, 09:13 PM
mjcrawford mjcrawford is offline
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Originally Posted by vuedoc View Post
I mentioned this in the other thread, but unless anyone has information to the contrary- I don't think a single-nacelle ship would have a secondary hull, and any ship with a secondary hull should probably have more than one warp nacelle.

Well, the problem is that you need a place for the ‘warp core’ to exist. In TOS era it is well established that the warp core is a very large piece of hardware, we only see is through the grate in TOS (a grate that Scotty seams fond of grabbing onto when the ship shakes) but in the early movies we clearly see that it runs the entire length of the secondary hull, plus vertically all the way up to the impulse engine. If you were to design a single nacelle’ed ship, it would still need a warp core, presumably at least half the size of the warp core on the Enterprise.

Since the primary hull is a fairly standard layout (crew quarters, labs, sick bay, weapons, transporter rooms, bridge) you can’t just stick something that big into the primary hull without drastically increasing the size of the hull (much like the back half of the Reliant in ST:TWoK) and from what we can see of the Kelvin it appears to be a very standard primary hull design except it appears to be substantially smaller then the hull on Enterprise (based on the relative size of the bridge) so for the warp core to be on the ship you must have a place to put it, hence the upper section is a secondary hull.

The other thing that I do not understand from those that are arguing about if this has two nacelles or one, is that the answer seams blatantly obvious. If you look at the upper section the front is clearly visible, and it is glowing in a pattern that is EXTREAMLY consistent with the front of every secondary hull in every era with a blue outer ring and an inner section that has some kind of antenna jutting out. If this were a warp nacelle, it would be the first to ever be seen with a concave front and the lighting makes it very clear that it is indeed concave. Meanwhile, even though the bottom section is hard to see behind the primary hull, it is also consistent with a TOS era warp nacelle in that it is clearly convex in shape based on the lighting, and appears to be glowing in an orange/red color which is the colors of EVERY warp nacelle fronts we have ever seen. The only thing we cannot really tell based on the angle of the shot is the overall length of the warp nacelle and secondary hull.

Of course, this is all fictional artwork so they can technically do whatever the heck they want to, but assuming that they are at least attempting to follow a logical pattern based on what we have already seen in Trek up to now, it is only logical that this is a single nacelle’ed ship with a secondary hull above the primary and parallel to the nacelle.
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