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  #21  
Old 10-30-2008, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mmoore View Post
Not to be nitpicky or anything, but I'm pretty sure the TOS Enterprise wasn't the flagship. The D was, but not the "no bloody A, B, C, or D" original.

If I'm wrong I'm sure someone will speeak up shortly.
Its use attendant to the Babel Conference is a pretty solid indicator that it was indeed the 'fleet's flagship. Not solid proof, mind you, but a very, very solid indicator.

What I interpreted the opening poster to mean is that he'd be thrilled to see the Matt Jeffries design (upgraded, of course, but still Jeffries' basic design) of the Constitution perform a saucer sep. So would I, frankly, I'd love to see a 2008 rendering (not reinterpretation) of the 1966 design performing a maneuver hinted at but never seen. I'm just skeptical about actually getting to see it.
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  #22  
Old 10-30-2008, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by DNA-1842 View Post
I think most of us here would agree that it was the flagship!
From a publicity definition the Enterprise was the flagship, but from an actual official operations definition the Enterprise was only "a" flagship on several brief occasions.

The former definition is in terms of the most well known ship in the entire service. However this does not really serve any official purpose in fact one could say that it was pretty much an unofficial designation. In reality a service as big as Star Fleet has multiple flagships for various purposes and regions. For example, as was mentioned in TNG on "Chain of Command" if there were to have been a Cardassian invasion, the Enterprise would serve as flagship of Federation forces in that area. Prior to or following such an occasion, the Enterprise had no such designation as flagship in terms of its roll in the hierarchy of the fleet. During the first Borg invasion, the Melbourne was probably the actual flagship for the defense of Federation space (if that was indeed the ship that the Admiral Hanson was on, though I'm not sure if his flagship was ever established in TNG or DS9). In First Contact, when the flagship was destroyed, it was probably very likely that Picard probably did have some actual authority to assume the position of command of the fleet as traditionally, Naval regulations would hand that roll to the commander of higher rank, or if there are several commanders that hold the highest rank then the position would be handed to the one with seniority in terms of years of service at that rank.
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Last edited by Akula2ssn : 10-30-2008 at 09:08 PM.
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  #23  
Old 10-30-2008, 08:31 PM
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You can see the saucer seperation in "Star Trek: Of Gods and Men" part 3. It is an alternate reality Enterprise but is still cool
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  #24  
Old 10-30-2008, 09:13 PM
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And as I recall from "Mr. Scotts Guide" (tho it's non cannon and I havn't seen it in like 20 years) once the ship was seperated, it had to be towed to a starbase to be re-attached.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:03 PM
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I would love to see the separation manouevre but I suppose we'll just have to wait and see if it happens in the film.

I don't know if it has ever been definitively established that any Enterprise was the flagship for the entire fleet - there were only some secondary references that the D was the full fleet flagship. There's not much on any of the others, even the E.
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  #26  
Old 10-31-2008, 06:53 AM
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I know couple times dugin TNG, it was said that the Entprise was "the Federation flagship"....it seems to me it might have mentioned in TOS, but I might well be mistaken.
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  #27  
Old 10-31-2008, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by The Saint View Post
Its use attendant to the Babel Conference is a pretty solid indicator that it was indeed the 'fleet's flagship. Not solid proof, mind you, but a very, very solid indicator.

What I interpreted the opening poster to mean is that he'd be thrilled to see the Matt Jeffries design (upgraded, of course, but still Jeffries' basic design) of the Constitution perform a saucer sep. So would I, frankly, I'd love to see a 2008 rendering (not reinterpretation) of the 1966 design performing a maneuver hinted at but never seen. I'm just skeptical about actually getting to see it.

At this point in Star Fleet it's no clear whether the best captain got the Flagship of the Fleet. It's not farfetched at all but then you must consider if he (kirk) was at 35 the fleets best captain.

I doubt it. How had kirk distinguished himself among or above his contemporaries? Flagship is a big duty and the fleet was young with far wiser and experienced captains.
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  #28  
Old 10-31-2008, 07:45 AM
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At this point in Star Fleet it's no clear whether the best captain got the Flagship of the Fleet. It's not farfetched at all but then you must consider if he (kirk) was at 35 the fleets best captain.

I doubt it. How had kirk distinguished himself among or above his contemporaries? Flagship is a big duty and the fleet was young with far wiser and experienced captains.
Actually, 'flagship' has a specific meaning, and only applying in Fleet maneuvers - something you rarely saw in TOS.

An Admiral, commanding a fleet, (or a 'squadron' action), is in charge of the overall strategy and tactics, while the Captain of each ship, (position, rather than rank - a Lieutenant can be the 'Captain' of the ship if he's in command.), is in command over his own ship. Old-style 'wet' navies have a specific flag to indicate which ship the commanding admiral is aboard, and fleet commands are issued from the 'flag ship'.

As I mentioned, fleet action is rarely seen in TOS, but the assumption that 'the flag' would be aboard the Enterprise isn't all that unreasonable... just never explicitly stated or verified.

(Indeed, the only real 'fleet action' was in 'The Ultimate Computer', M5 is installed aboard the Enterprise, and the 'fleet action' wargames are run by Commodore Wesley - in this case, the Lexington was serving as the flagship... but it WAS a war-game, or 'simulation', and the Commodore was 'playing the part' of an Admiral, and the Enterprise the 'enemy'... )
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  #29  
Old 10-31-2008, 07:53 AM
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In trek Flagship meant the best ship in the fleet, or Star Fleet's finest. At least in TNG. That definition isn't established at all in TMP or TOS. Where we see Picard take such action as a Captain we never see him overrule an Admiral because of his ship's status as Flagship. The Flagship has authority that why I doubt Kirk posessed the Fleet's Flagship...
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  #30  
Old 10-31-2008, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
At this point in Star Fleet it's no clear whether the best captain got the Flagship of the Fleet. It's not farfetched at all but then you must consider if he (kirk) was at 35 the fleets best captain.

I doubt it. How had kirk distinguished himself among or above his contemporaries? Flagship is a big duty and the fleet was young with far wiser and experienced captains.
Good point. There were a lot of Constitution-class starships during TOS, just like there were a lot of Galaxy-class starships during TNG. It's not the technology but the captain, and Picard is just more experienced. It would be a little bit over the top to make Kirk not merely one of the youngest captains, but also put him on the flagship.
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