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Old 10-27-2008, 05:38 PM
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This one really threw me for a loop.

So I was working my way through one of the Trek novels and discovered a place where Spock called Kirk "Thyla." I decided to hit the Internet to see if there was any good reading material to be had on the relationship between Kirk and Spock (and McCoy to a lesser extent) and I typed in "Kirk/Spock relationship" because ... well, that's what I was searching for ... and what I got was TOTALLY unexpected. It appears as though there's an entire subset of Trek fans who think Kirk and Spock are gay lovers. While I have nothing against homosexuality and really couldn't care less who's gay or straight or who does what with who, I was a little shocked at this. I get the feeling I'm the last person on Earth to find out about this subset (I believe it's called "slash") but wow. Simply wow.

My question is this: how does one make the leap between the Kirk and Spock relationship that's been detailed in the television series and in the films and this slash stuff? I don't get it.

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Old 10-27-2008, 05:49 PM
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Somehow, I just don't think so. The way Kirk pines away about not having a beach to walk on, his reputed (and actual!) promiscuity with everything female in the galaxy, not to mention Carol Marcus and David, would seem to put a damper on that theory. It's the same thing with Batman and Robin. In the classic comics, it's just not so. Spock however, has never seemed to show much interest in women except in "Amok Time". I haven't seen him take any interest in them since. He spurned nurse Chapel well enough, ah, but then again there was "This Side Of Paradise", the spores merely enhanced whatever one was already feeling, so i guess there really isn't any room for error here. It just isn't so.
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:52 PM
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T'Aerwynd, to answer your latter question -- they get around it because it's fan fiction... objects of pure imagination written either for private or limited consumption to those who share the interest.

Think of it as the Federation equivalent of Mad magazine's "STAR TREK We'd Like to See" for those who'd like to see it that way... for fun.

Ask our highly esteemed board member Elizadolots about it -- she is the expert (and such an author, I believe).
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:54 PM
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Ok, so I did a little digging.

The Vulcan Language Dictionary: http://www.starbase-10.de/vld
... define's t'hy'la as a friend and more specifically, a "friend-lover-lifelong companion, blood brother/sister, soulmate, soul-brother/sister."

Now I get where the slash people pounced on "lover" there and concocted an entire subset of Trek fandom. I think. But the whole idea of Kirk and Spock being gay lovers just blows my mind. One can be someone's lover with no sexual connotation whatsoever, and Kirk and Spock were the closest of friends -- brothers, almost.

<-- totally perplexed.
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Old 10-27-2008, 05:58 PM
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Such slash stories don't say it DID happen... they just ponder WHAT IF it happened.

Think of it as private alternate realities.
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Old 10-27-2008, 06:00 PM
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More than brothers, closer than brothers. They are damn near symbiotic. McCoy as well. It's like a three way mutual appreciation society. Spock and McCoy don't even hate one another as much as they let on. In "Amok Time" Spock told McCoy that if he bothered him again Spock would certainly break his neck. The fact that after all of the greif McCoy gave Spock, Spock didn't actually just go ahead and do it, says something to me.
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Old 10-27-2008, 06:06 PM
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Well, yeah. The three are basically three parts of one person -- id, ego, super ego, if you want to look at it that way. But gay lovers? Wooh.
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Old 10-27-2008, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T'Aerwynd View Post
I typed in "Kirk/Spock relationship" because ... well, that's what I was searching for ...
Oh dear... I can just imagine how that must've felt. I've known of slash for a few years now - it's not my kind of thing, but I'm familiar with the concept, so I'm fairly de-sensitized to it.

In fact, Kirk/Spock fanfiction is what gave rise to the concept of "slash" - it's from the punctuation slash in "Kirk/Spock" or "K/S", that started circulating back in the '70s.

According to Gene Roddenberry, Kirk may have been bisexual. We don't see this on TV due to the social mores of the era, though.

But the "unspoken love" between Kirk and Spock is almost a cliche in its own right. There's a rather famous YouTube video that explores the idea - it's set to the song 'Closer' by Nine Inch Nails, so it contains profanity and imagery which may offend. The video mainly uses footage from 'Amok Time' and other episodes, but edited for effect.

I say again:
This video contains language and themes that might cause offence, and it is probably not work-safe.
There's no pornography or nudity, though, aside from about half a second of partial nudity which doesn't actually 'reveal' anything. There's plenty of Shirtless Kirk, though. The violent aspect makes it a disturbing watch, but there's no denying it's a clever piece of editing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PwpcUawjK0


Remember, folks: "subtext" is an anagram of "buttsex".

Slash is a phenomenon that is as mysterious as it is diverse. Some view it as cheap, trashy smut; others regard it as a subversive, creative way of deconstructing a fictional world and examining the characters' relationships in new and unusual ways. It's primarily pornographic/erotic - a stereotypically "male" interest - yet women make up most of the readers and writers of slash.

Thanks to the infamous "rule 34", if you can imagine a pairing then there is probably slash fanfic about it. I once tried to test the limits of this theory, and bet someone that there would not be slashfic that paired Rupert Giles (from Buffy the Vampire Slayer) and Jean-Luc Picard.

I was wrong.

Last edited by Big D : 10-27-2008 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 10-27-2008, 06:19 PM
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Plus there's the fact that they're all travelling through perilous space, encountering perilous situations and perilous alien beings onboard a thin-skinned (albiet sheilded, well-built and well-equipped) starship. When one is in that kind of situation, one tends to gravitate toward the others that know they can trust, and depend on them. A trust builds between people in those situations out of necessity and for survival. I was on a large, well-built and strong vessel when I was in the Navy, but when you're out on deck in high wind and heavy waves it's your best pals, the one's you know you can trust, that you want helping you on whatever job you're doing. And because you can trust them, you work better with them than you would with a group of strangers, because you're at ease knowing they've got your back.


Edit: I was just watching "The Naked Time". Kirk and Spock had both been afflicted by the disease and they were face to face in the conference room, it was an eerie scene between them. Chapel had lost all her inhibitions and told Spock she loved him. Spock was trying to tell Kirk something about love and Kirk told him, and i quote "Love, you're better off without it, and I'm better off without mine." And then when Spock had left Kirk looked up, as if at the Enterprise herself and said "Never lose you, Never!". Sex might mean one thing to Kirk, and I don't know exactly what that might be. But it's crystal clear that love for him is spelled NCC-1701. No wonder he didn't settle down with Carol Marcus and raise Kirklings. His ship is everything to him.
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Last edited by MonsieurHood : 10-27-2008 at 08:39 PM.
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Old 10-28-2008, 02:52 PM
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And let us be honest, cute guys kissing is hot.
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