The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > General Star Trek Discussions > Warp Drive Theory
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 06-09-2009, 12:34 PM
radoskal's Avatar
radoskal radoskal is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 952
Default

wow...you know...for science fiction geeks you people are sure quick to dismiss most everything as imposible....in the words of a famous Trek captain...something is only impossible until it's not....look what kind of a technological revolution we've experienced in the past 100 years.... supersonic flight...near instant communication...computer systems that perform calculations faster than any human ever could...a vast network of information covering nearly the entire planet... television...I could go on and on and on...if you told anyone of these things in 1909 they would consider you crazy and could probably point you to newsprint that proclaimed these things impossible. After all if you travel faster than 20 miles per hour..you will get crushed by gravitational forces..or blown off your transport by the sheer amount of wind generated through your speed....

Now I don't claim that bugs will ever be the size of VW's

but...a numer of universities are already doing work on invisibility cloaks as it were

http://science.howstuffworks.com/invisibility-cloak.htm

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/0...ity-cloak.html

as for the classic scifi standby of shields

From Wikipedia:

A University of Washington in Seattle group has been experimenting with using a bubble of charged plasma to surround a spacecraft, contained by a fine mesh of superconducting wire.[1] This would protect the spacecraft from interstellar radiation and some particles without needing physical shielding. Likewise, Rutherford Appleton Laboratory is attempting to design an actual test satellite, which should orbit Earth with a charged plasma field around it.[2][3]
Workers at a 3M factory in South Carolina have encountered electrostatically-charged air that impeded movement, with the problem fixed by properly grounding the equipment causing the stray charges.[4]
Plasma windows have some similarities to force fields, being difficult for matter to transverse.






so don't toss the word imposible around so casually my friends...after all..."imposible" things are happening around us every day...or haven't you looked at your microwave lately.
__________________
Mom, how many times do I have to tell you, Track is what athletes run on. Trek is what the Enterprise goes on.

-Free Enterprise
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-09-2009, 01:30 PM
FanWriter45's Avatar
FanWriter45 FanWriter45 is offline
Vice Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Conway, Arkansas. It's a nice little town with three Universities in it, and surrounded by woods.
Posts: 3,051
Default

Yeah... but my microwave oven doesn't depend on breaking a primary constant of the universe in order to zap my hot pocket for lunch.
__________________
Number Two: Conform, Number Six! Conform!

Number Six: I will not be stamped, filed, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! I am a person.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-09-2009, 01:50 PM
martok2112's Avatar
martok2112 martok2112 is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: River Ridge, LA
Posts: 6,480
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanWriter45 View Post
Yeah... but my microwave oven doesn't depend on breaking a primary constant of the universe in order to zap my hot pocket for lunch.
To err is human. To really frack things up takes a computer.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-09-2009, 05:58 PM
Vulkanis's Avatar
Vulkanis Vulkanis is offline
Midshipman
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14
Default

There had also been doubting Thomas's and the doom & gloom people in the past who scoffed at the thought we'd ever get into space or land on the moon.. but we eventually did it. Short boat trips on water is no different than us being limited in only going to the moon because we haven't yet discovered a means to travel great distances in short time from like sail-boat to engine technology. I think what must of inspired boats and later ships was simply when someone saw a tree log floating on the water. The getting warp drive is possibly the experts haven't discovered how to apply such theories in a way that works. There's always a missing puzzle to the equation that hasn't been reached.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-10-2009, 08:51 AM
Botany Bay's Avatar
Botany Bay Botany Bay is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulkanis View Post
I think what must of inspired boats and later ships was simply when someone saw a tree log floating on the water. The getting warp drive is possibly the experts haven't discovered how to apply such theories in a way that works. There's always a missing puzzle to the equation that hasn't been reached.
Yeah, just that this time a whole universe is missing in the puzzle. You can allways say Harry Potters abilities are possible, because we just may have missed discovering the train heading for Hogwarts yet. Wont happen, no matter how often we stress Columbus as an example of discovery or the brothers Wright. Thats like comparing electro magnetism with psychokinesis.

The brothers Wright needed a mashine to make use of the known behaviour of our universe. Warp drive needs the universe to do things it never did, not even remotely. Thats quite a huge difference.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-10-2009, 09:42 AM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,282
Default

I think that subspace is a reasonable fictional idea and the related idea to travel through it with warp drive is a reasonable fictional technology.
If you imagine that subspace is just more compressed than normal space (e.g. what is 1m kilometer in normal space is 1m in subspace layer 1, 1cm in subspace layer 2, 1mm in subspace layer 3 and so on) and that warp drive push you into subspace (higher warp factors meaning deeper into subspace layers) it all makes sense.

Subspace communication is then just normal radio communication, normal EM radiation that travels through subspace on some kind of warp wave or whatever which keeps it in subspace (OK, this does not really sound very convincing ).
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-10-2009, 09:56 AM
Botany Bay's Avatar
Botany Bay Botany Bay is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I think that subspace is a reasonable fictional idea and the related idea to travel through it with warp drive is a reasonable fictional technology.
If you imagine that subspace is just more compressed than normal space (e.g. what is 1m kilometer in normal space is 1m in subspace layer 1, 1cm in subspace layer 2, 1mm in subspace layer 3 and so on) and that warp drive push you into subspace (higher warp factors meaning deeper into subspace layers) it all makes sense.

Subspace communication is then just normal radio communication, normal EM radiation that travels through subspace on some kind of warp wave or whatever which keeps it in subspace (OK, this does not really sound very convincing ).


Okay, lets say there is a space beyond space. This space is highly contracted. When the Enterprise leaves our universe and enters the subspace universe (how ever that should be possible) then why doesnt the Enterprise shrink too? The relative distances would remain the same.

I mean, all this subspace technobubble says is: Dont worry, we send the ship through a universe no one ever saw and no one has any reason to believe it exists. And in this universe everything works completely different.

Welcome to Hogwarts. Where brooms can fly and the evil guys have no nose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JIgAKA80UY

Last edited by Botany Bay : 06-10-2009 at 10:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-10-2009, 10:07 AM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,282
Default

You are absolutely right, BB. Trek ain't 'hard science fiction' in terms of scientific accuracy, it relies on a fictional technology. I am loath to label it fanatasy because there are some vague ideas about how it is supposed to work, be it only mumbo-jumbo like "the warp plasma gets injected into the warp coils when Picard says engage". But that's only semantics, in fact there is virtually no difference to pure fanatasy like Wars's hyperspace.

Based on what we know today, interstellar travel could be possible if you travel with 0.999 c due to time dilation. You travel 1000 light years in 1 month while the time around you has progressed for the 1000 years. That would make any such travel a museum trip, the travelers could only report 1000 year old information.
So time dilation makes interstellar travel theoretically possible but also inappropriate for fiction. That's why we have the subspace bubble gadgetery in Trek.

EDIT: I couldn't pinpoint it so I lay down on the couch and asked Siegmund why I somehow prefer the word sub- over hyperspace. He dig out this abomination which I buried deep in my subconsciousness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=QXV84A39omw

Last edited by horatio : 06-10-2009 at 10:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-10-2009, 10:47 AM
Commodore's Avatar
Commodore Commodore is offline
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Starbase 24
Posts: 2,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I think that subspace is a reasonable fictional idea and the related idea to travel through it with warp drive is a reasonable fictional technology.
If you imagine that subspace is just more compressed than normal space (e.g. what is 1m kilometer in normal space is 1m in subspace layer 1, 1cm in subspace layer 2, 1mm in subspace layer 3 and so on) and that warp drive push you into subspace (higher warp factors meaning deeper into subspace layers) it all makes sense.
I've been proposing this idea for quite awhile now...


Quote:
Subspace communication is then just normal radio communication, normal EM radiation that travels through subspace on some kind of warp wave or whatever which keeps it in subspace (OK, this does not really sound very convincing ).
Subspace transceivers--they transmit and receive messages across the subspace domain at speeds up to Warp 9.9999*--but they can only sustain that for 20 light-years** or so before the signals drop back into normalspace (subspace beacons and subspace relay stations come in handy at that point).


*Damn fast

**According to the damn TNG Tech Manual
__________________
Free your mind, and the rest will follow.
--En Vogue
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-10-2009, 01:15 PM
Botany Bay's Avatar
Botany Bay Botany Bay is offline
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post

EDIT: I couldn't pinpoint it so I lay down on the couch and asked Siegmund why I somehow prefer the word sub- over hyperspace. He dig out this abomination which I buried deep in my subconsciousness.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=QXV84A39omw


Sometimes psychological explanations indeed explain everything.
"I allways hated Star Wars because hyperspace doesnt convince me. Damn you, Scooter!!!!!"
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:06 PM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.