[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Leathart

Ugly this thread has become....

No, people are staing their veiws. Strong views yes, but no one has been rude.

[horatio]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Having trouble finding it in Webster's.



There's been nothing more hateful in anything I've said than there is in a concerned parent warning their offspring not to touch a hot stove burner. "A reboot is a bad idea." does not equate to anything that begins with the words, "I hate..."



Most illogical. To say that a reboot is likely to harm Star Trek is neither conceit or intolerance. It's a prediction based on the observable result of a previous reboot attempt.

It isn't hate, conceit or intolerance to say that because 1 + 1 = 2, 1 + 1 + 1 is likely to equal 3 -- regardless of how little a poster named Horatio may care for that answer. Perhaps instead of regurgitating the philosophy of a fictional society, you should apply diligent study to the very real principle of logic upon which that society models itself.

This discussion is not about logic, it is about preferences. I respect purists as long as they are tolerant. There is enough Trek for each taste.
I respect that you don't like ENT and probably some other Trek series too, as long as you don't cry out your hate loudly. TOS got cancelled too, so obviously getting canceled is no objective quality indicator.
And only because you don't like one prequel does not imply that you don't like prequels in general. If you don't like tomatoes, it does not imply you don't like strawberries only because both are red (so much about logic, after all I am the one with the pointed ears ).

This is only my humble opinion, but I consider IDIC and the concept of cooperation and peaceful coexistence quintessential Star Trek, just as you consider the original interior design of the E quintessential ST, or?

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

Well in the end, as much as I love it, it's just a TV show. Not only that a Tv show (TOS) that was a ratings DOG in it's own time. Amazing how worked up we all get about it!

Eh, don't confuse 'emphatic' with upset. As you say, strongly held views -- and, barring personally-directed profanity, of course, we're made of sterner stuff than to cry over strong opinions strongly stated and stood by.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Eh, don't confuse 'emphatic' with upset. As you say, strongly held views -- and, barring personally-directed profanity, of course, we're made of sterner stuff than to cry over strong opinions strongly stated and stood by.

No, I never thought you made anything personal out of what you have said.

I think the debate has been well done and respectful of the others involved by all sides.

I do however, find a sense of irony that you seem ready to condem a film that isn't due out for months and months yet. A film we know very little about, that is not affiliated with any of the creators of any of the previous Trek incarnations.

I say give JJ the benfit of the doubt, if he f**ks it up, I shall stand with you as we beat him to the ground.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

No, I never thought you made anything personal out of what you have said.

I think the debate has been well done and respectful of the others involved by all sides.

I do however, find a sense of irony that you seem ready to condem a film that isn't due out for months and months yet. A film we know very little about, that is not affiliated with any of the creators of any of the previous Trek incarnations.

I say give JJ the benfit of the doubt, if he f**ks it up, I shall stand with you as we beat him to the ground.

Though I'm loathe to appeal to my own authority as a working writer, I assure you that my knowledge of the industry is giving me insights into the project that others might or might not pick up on, even based on the admittedly scarce material available, and based on those insights I'm not hopeful.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Though I'm loathe to appeal to my own authority as a working writer, I assure you that my knowledge of the industry is giving me insights into the project that others might or might not pick up on, even based on the admittedly scarce material available, and based on those insights I'm not hopeful.

But Trek productions have a history of false story leads.

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

But Trek productions have a history of false story leads.

Yes, they do, and there are "tells" in false leads which the leaks we've been getting don't have.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Yes, they do, and there are "tells" in false leads which the leaks we've been getting don't have.

So what are you sensing that is causing the alarm?

[The Saint]

Statements in the vein of 'you don't need to know anything about Star Trek to get into this film' and 'nod to the fans'.

I've made this point elsewhere, I think, but it related specifically to this subject: Star Trek has been a worldwide phenomenon for at least 30 years.

Those who are going to be fans, are fans. We're not talking about "teh n00-est intarwebz meme" here. We're talking about something so widespread that if you visit any developed nation on the planet, walk up to a stranger at random and say, "Beam me up, Scotty," you have better than 80% odds that they know the reference even if they don't speak a word of conversational English. People who aren't into Star Trek aren't going to be into Star Trek after this film comes out unless the film radically retools Trek into something it hasn't already been for the last 40 years. Do you start to see what I'm getting at?

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by The Saint

Statements in the vein of 'you don't need to know anything about Star Trek to get into this film' and 'nod to the fans'.

I've made this point elsewhere, I think, but it related specifically to this subject: Star Trek has been a worldwide phenomenon for at least 30 years.

Those who are going to be fans, are fans. We're not talking about "teh n00-est intarwebz meme" here. We're talking about something so widespread that if you visit any developed nation on the planet, walk up to a stranger at random and say, "Beam me up, Scotty," you have better than 80% odds that they know the reference even if they don't speak a word of conversational English. People who aren't into Star Trek aren't going to be into Star Trek after this film comes out unless the film radically retools Trek into something it hasn't already been for the last 40 years. Do you start to see what I'm getting at?

Isn't that ironic when that line, "Beam me up Scotty." was never used on TOS?

I would choose to interpet lines like, 'you don't need to know anything about Star Trek to get into this film' and 'nod to the fans' as the film is accessable, and a good action/adventure story everyone can relate to, TWOK is such an example. If my wife, who's not a Trek fan can enjoy it, then I know a film works.