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  #21  
Old 09-06-2008, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post
The webster links confirm my statements.
Like I said, ball contains [ɔ], while but contains [ʌ]. The US ball is not the Klingon ball! Klingon a is always [a]
Perhaps you notice that the o in open is different from the o in or.
The English not would be written nat in Klingon.
Oh, dear NCC, Merriam-Webster, whom you are referencing here, doesn't use the IPA for it's phonetic representation as you've assumed it does. You've gone and gotten your vowels mixed up.

From here on out, I'll use IPA notation, to keep things standardized. Since we're talking about exact sounds here, IPA notation will be enclosed in square brackets (“[…]”).

Anyway, some English speakers (like me) pronounce the “a” in “ball” ([ɑ]) the same way as in “call” and the “o” in “hot” and “not.” This is the Western American accent I was talking about.

That said, I will admit that this vowel merge is the reason I did make one mistake in my enthusiasm to explain the pronunciation of Klingon. The German “a” does not appear in the Klingon phonology. In Klingon, the sound is [ɑ] (pronounced more towards the back of the mouth), but in German, the sound is [a] (pronounced at the front/middle of the mouth).

Hope that helps!

-AJBlue98
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  #22  
Old 09-07-2008, 04:27 AM
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Then why does the klingon baH sound like the German Bach (the composer, or the river)? And why is the bat'leth written betleH in Klingon?
When you listen to the sounds you provided in that webster link, you must hear that I'm right... compare them to the KLI sounds...
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  #23  
Old 09-07-2008, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post
Then why does the klingon baH sound like the German Bach (the composer, or the river)? And why is the bat'leth written betleH in Klingon?
When you listen to the sounds you provided in that webster link, you must hear that I'm right... compare them to the KLI sounds...
I've compared all the sounds—the KLI sounds, the Merriam Webster sounds, and the IPA sounds. Linguistics is a hobby of mine, so I learn about it as much and as often as I can. I'm very well versed on the topic, which is why I can tell you with fair certainty that the only reason (except for betleH, which I'll get to in a moment) we keep arguing is that you and I didn't learn each other's languages the same way, and we're assuming that the other is wrong about the vowels when we're probably both right and don't know it.

So here's the thing with Klingon “a.” If you listen to Mark Lenard at the beginning of TMP, he's very clearly pronouncing “baH” as [bax], towards the front of his mouth; but Worf clearly pronounces the “a” as [ɑ], at the back of the mouth near the throat, like when he pronounces the word “Daqtagh” as [ˈɖɑqʰtʰɑːɣ]. Really both are correct, depending on which speaker is speaking the word. The same is true for the English words I gave as examples in my previous posts. Some people pronounce them one way, some the other, some as both, and they're all right.

As for Bat'leth/betleH, it's worth pointing out that when Okrand compiled the Klingon phonology, he created a collection of sounds that do not exist in any natural human language, so when translating words from Klingon to English or any other language, sometimes vowels and consonants are changed, just to make the words easier to pronounce. “betleH” should be pronounced in Klingon as [bɛtlɛx], but the English translation "bat'leth” is pronounced [ˈbætlɛθ] with the “a” as the [æ] sound and the [x] changed to [θ], which is easier to pronounce (and actually exists in more than one English word).

Again, HTH!

-Adam

Last edited by AJBlue98 : 09-07-2008 at 10:33 PM. Reason: bervity and clarity
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  #24  
Old 09-08-2008, 01:56 AM
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So how does one say Kirk?
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  #25  
Old 09-08-2008, 06:18 AM
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So how does one say Kirk?
If it was me, I'd just pronounce it “qrq,” since in English the vowel in that name is almost completely skipped. I think the actual spelling in Klingon is “qIrq,” however I could be wrong about that part.
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  #26  
Old 09-08-2008, 06:19 AM
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If it was me, I'd just pronounce it “qrq,” since in English the vowel in that name is almost completely skipped. I think the actual spelling in Klingon is “qIrq,” however I could be wrong about that part.
Just wondered how it was spelled...thanks!
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  #27  
Old 09-08-2008, 08:11 AM
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I think it should be qerq...
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  #28  
Old 09-08-2008, 08:46 AM
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I think it should be qerq...
Why?
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  #29  
Old 09-08-2008, 10:25 AM
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Because humans don't say Kirk like in "Indiana", but like in "skirt".
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  #30  
Old 09-08-2008, 10:34 AM
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Because humans don't say Kirk like in "Indiana", but like in "skirt".
Right!
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