[kevin]

The mind boggles at some of the things that could've happened in history, let alone the things that did.

[martok2112]

I prefer to think of myself as a properly wired, white heterosexual male....which unfortunately is an endangered species in these politically correct times.

Yes, I have a few friends of alternative persuasion. Yes, we get along just fine. We have a simple policy. Don't try to stick your willy in my wazzoo, and I won't stick my fist in your mouth.

Besides, very few of my alternative friends are male. Most of 'em are female...and a few I've actually reconverted...thanks to a few minutes in the sack. I guess I was "Good Luck, Chuck" for a few of those chicks, 'cause they eventually went on and got married to guys.

As a people, we're still thousands of years away from any REAL enlightenment. Those pretentious "high standards" being spoken of aren't going to become standard for quite a while. The only reason any of it is happening right now is because of political pressure, and government intervention. So, yeah, that really says a lot about us as a species right now.

[kevin]

I don't think heterosexual men or women are anywhere near an endangered species, but it's the kind of thing that should never have been an issue for the PC brigade (whom i'm not always a fan of) to have to get involved in full stop. Or anyone else, for that matter - it should be a non-issue.

[martok2112]

Originally Posted by kevin

I don't think heterosexual men or women are anywhere near an endangered species, but it's the kind of thing that should never have been an issue for the PC brigade (whom i'm not always a fan of) to have to get involved in full stop. Or anyone else, for that matter - it should be a non-issue.

It would be nice if it was.

How do I approach this (sincerely) delicately?

For the longest time, it was held that homosexuality was an aberrant lifestyle against God. That God intended Adam for Eve (and not for Steve). There's a certain way He made the plumbing, and that's how it was supposed to work. For most conservatives (and yeah, I'm pretty darn conservative...but only to a point....this explained later), that still holds true.

Then, it became socially hip to be gay. And thanks to Bill Clinton, it went beyond just being socially hip, to being politically correct. I remembered LMAOing, and also feeling just a slight tinge of disgust as I heard some flamer on television (within hours of Clinton's election) saying...in extremely lispy tones "We're a political force, now." (or rather: "We're a pahlitical forth, now.")

Later on down the road, you started seeing teenaged girls (and disturbingly enough...pre-teen girls) running around, holding hands, and acting like their all "into" each other. They're definitely not doing it because of any personally held convictions. They're doing it because it's "hip to be gay". Doing it as if to say "We're lesbians" is some kind of password that'll get you into the hottest night spots. They're in the "me too" crowd. I only felt for their futures. Hopefully, they'd grow out of the fad, and find themselves a guy.

And of course, the aetheists are all too willing to help out in the regard that God does not exist, so therefore, such lifestyles cannot be a sin.

Down here in NOLA, we have a weekend where it's like "Gay/Lesbian Pride" or something like that. Ok...I'm cool with that. I play music, I make my money. (And money was pretty darn good that weekend.) The thing I am not cool with is seeing guys walking around all bare-chested (some of 'em looking like roast chickens), flapping their arms around, blowing kisses at every guy they see. I was really sickened when a couple of my bandmates and I were walking back to our gig from getting some lunch, and we see two guys walking toward us, one of whom had his hand in the other guy's pocket...and I'm pretty sure he wasn't fishing for change. Let's just say, I was not given a pleasant mental visual from that little display. But, whatever floats their dinghies, I guess.

However, I am also not exactly a full-on, hardcore conservative. As I did mention, I do have a few "alternative" friends. During this gay/lesbo pride weekend (there's an actual name for it, but I forget what it is), you will also have hardcore holy rollers who will come out with protest signs far more hateful than you'd see most people openly speak. Signs like (and these are cited for example only....not intended to inflame anyone here, or express my personal opinions) "God hates ***s", "Fear All Gay Sins", and even signs that had lists of the things God supposedly damns people for: gays, abusers, unsubmissive wives, fornicators, etc....I'd better stop...I don't want to see this thread deleted because I was simply trying to give an example of some of the things gays and lesbians do have to put up with during this weekend. I cannot remember what it was, but I had a wireless mic, and I can't even remember what song we were singing, but whatever it was, I got outside of our club whilst the band was still playing, and began singing it defiantly to the holy rollers across the street. Some of the paraders actually gave me thumbs up, or applause. LOL!

Yes, I am a God-fearing man. No, I do NOT believe God's word changes to suit any socio-political special interest. Yes, I still have some old-school beliefs, but I am starting, (little by little) to soften up in that area. No, I do NOT like holy rollers. And if there is one thing you can say to me that will really piss me off: "God hates this...." or "Jesus hates that...." one thing I know for sure....neither God nor Jesus hates anyone, regardless of race, sex, creed, political affiliation, or sexual orientation.

I'd better stop. Suffice to say, I have gay friends (mostly women...and some of 'em pretty darn good lookin'). A couple are male. We actually get along great. I don't speak to them of getting laid by Suzie Hot Chick, and they don't tell me about their latest reversal of polarity flow in the fecal ejection conduits. In other words, we don't push each other's lifestyles off on each other.

[jerhanner]

Actually, the anti-gay stuff is pretty new. Most native American tribes saw gay people as special - the men usually ended up shamans and the women were warriors, and given all the status of a man.

I trust you're as grossed out by male/female public displays of affection? It's not really fair to judge all gay people by the actions of a few! There are bad apples in every barrel.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by jerhanner

Actually, the anti-gay stuff is pretty new. Most native American tribes saw gay people as special - the men usually ended up shamans and the women were warriors, and given all the status of a man.

I trust you're as grossed out by male/female public displays of affection? It's not really fair to judge all gay people by the actions of a few! There are bad apples in every barrel.

Perosanlly, doesn't bother me one bit. I hope they are as tolerant of me.

[martok2112]

Originally Posted by jerhanner

I trust you're as grossed out by male/female public displays of affection? It's not really fair to judge all gay people by the actions of a few! There are bad apples in every barrel.

Well, I still have yet to see a guy walk around with his hand in his girlfriend's/wife's front pants pocket. (Or vicey versey). Usually, it's just confined to the holding of hands, or a brief kiss. But, that's natural. In movie theaters, it might get quite a bit more racey....but I'm more focused on the movie, so let 'em have their fun...as long as they're not making noise.

But seeing two dudes walking around, with one's hand in the other's front pocket....yeah, I'd say I was pretty disgusted. But, like I said, whatever floats their dinghies. This was a blatant display...and certainly not done out of any genuine affection. The looks on their faces was enough to tell us: Yeah, we're doing this because it grosses you out.

[kevin]

Public displays of affection are things that everyone has a view of, I understand some people gay/straight whatever push the boundaries of what should be done in public but kissing and the like doesn't really bother me.

And although it's not entirely relevant ,regarding earlier statements, then I will state that I do not believe in God nor the Bible and anyone quoting that text as a reason to be intolerant (as many well publicised protest groups do) of people doesn't register for me. It's a non-argument and it's not a good excuse to berate someone else's existence but that's all I say on that.

The basic matter is that sexuality should be an irrelevance full stop when it comes to military service, being your doctor or dentist or an organ donor even. I get that isn't how it is and with the world as it is right now it's going to stay that way for quite some time, but perhaps further down the line it will improve.

[martok2112]

Originally Posted by kevin

The basic matter is that sexuality should be an irrelevance full stop when it comes to military service, being your doctor or dentist or an organ donor even.

Agreed....until such time as such things start to serve as a detriment to the unit or the doctor/patient relationship as a whole. Otherwise, if you're good at what you do professionally, what does it matter?

[FanWriter45]

Originally Posted by Berengarius7

Are you totally certain they were straight men? Or were they just playing it straight? Alll straight men don't fit that stereotype. You'll catch us looking more often than talking. Because we don't have to make up stories of conquests to make us look macho. We know what we like. Also, if a guy is perfectly groomed, perfectly dressed and a perfect physical specimen, i'd be suspicious that he was gay. Most real straight men are far from perfect. Some of us are rangy, some of us have beer bellies, scars, callouses and the look of a hard worker. Our faces are rough, our muscles are from heavy lifting and hard work not from a bowflex machine. We don't wear fancy clothes or smell like lillies, we smell like sweat and sunburn and don't give a damn who knows it, because we're usually too busy trying to work to keep our family from starving to death and to keep our kids in school clothes. Bottom line, you don't cover up something you don't need to hide, only something you don't want found out.

Berengarius,

Um... you DO realize what a stereotype you're spouting, right? Not all gays are the "perfectly groomed" (re: efeminate) types you are suggesting. I've been in plenty of "bear bars" where the clinetele was both gay, and looked like the cast of that new biker series with Ron Pearlman. Sadly, a lot of those gay men could have had better success, had they taken a shower once in a while.
Chances are, some of the guys you were "working hard in the sunlight" with, were, and are gay. They too, were working hard to keep their heads above water, and provide for their families.

The BS you posted just shows that you need to actually meet a few of us (or at least realize who some of your friends are) before you keep spewing this bigoted crap.

Just to state the obvious: You can NOT tell someone's orientation from just looking at them.