[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by kevin

Also true.

We cannot expect everyone to live to or adhere to our standards, that's silly.

Our strength is our diversity.

[kevin]

I know what you're saying but it always aggravates me when issues are made out of nothing - not that sexuality is a nothing issue and to many people it's a very hot issue, but I've never understood how people can get so angry and violent over it. I know they do, but I just can't wrap my head around it - it hurts no-one else and it's no-one else's business - oh, I've begun rambling again and this isn't that kind of thread. I'll shut up now!

[jerhanner]

I know what you're saying Kevin!

During my 10 year stint, you know who talked about sex all the time, harassed the women, etc? The straight men. Funny how that's OK!

And let me tell you - I'd bet $1000 that 1/3 of my basic training company were lesbians - we all kind of knew, and nobody cared at all.

[Berengarius7]

Originally Posted by jerhanner

I know what you're saying Kevin!

During my 10 year stint, you know who talked about sex all the time, harassed the women, etc? The straight men. Funny how that's OK!

And let me tell you - I'd bet $1000 that 1/3 of my basic training company were lesbians - we all kind of knew, and nobody cared at all.

Are you totally certain they were straight men? Or were they just playing it straight? Alll straight men don't fit that stereotype. You'll catch us looking more often than talking. Because we don't have to make up stories of conquests to make us look macho. We know what we like. Also, if a guy is perfectly groomed, perfectly dressed and a perfect physical specimen, i'd be suspicious that he was gay. Most real straight men are far from perfect. Some of us are rangy, some of us have beer bellies, scars, callouses and the look of a hard worker. Our faces are rough, our muscles are from heavy lifting and hard work not from a bowflex machine. We don't wear fancy clothes or smell like lillies, we smell like sweat and sunburn and don't give a damn who knows it, because we're usually too busy trying to work to keep our family from starving to death and to keep our kids in school clothes. Bottom line, you don't cover up something you don't need to hide, only something you don't want found out.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by jerhanner

I know what you're saying Kevin!

During my 10 year stint, you know who talked about sex all the time, harassed the women, etc? The straight men. Funny how that's OK!

And let me tell you - I'd bet $1000 that 1/3 of my basic training company were lesbians - we all kind of knew, and nobody cared at all.

As it should be, judge soemone by the content of their charater. Aamazing how soem of us strieght men act, makes me ashamed sometimes.

[FanWriter45]

Well, I don't know how much of a success the policy is... since it went into effect in 1993, we've lost over 12,000 troops to its intolerance. That's 12,000 people who really wanted to serve this country, and who were told to pack their bags because of who they loved.

On the NPR coverage, they had a retired Captain (who is lesbian) who missed getting killed on 9/11 by about 5 minutes because she had just walked out of the rooms where the plane slammed into the Pentagon. She had kept her sexuality a secret for over 12 years while in the service. Her first thought, after she regained her composure was, "if I had been killed, my partner would have been the last one to know..." Because, of course, she couldn't put her as a dependant, or spouse on any of her paperwork. If she had been killed in the line of duty, her partner would have gotten NOTHING in terms of benefits... as would the partners of any of the estimated 10,000 other gays currently serving in the military.

This is your definition of "working pretty well so far?"

[HRH The KING]

Gay people should be able to serve in the military openly.

There is no logical argument against it.

[jerhanner]

Originally Posted by Berengarius7

Are you totally certain they were straight men?

They didn't sign any releases, but they were straight while I was with them. (ha!)

[jerhanner]

Originally Posted by HRH The KING

Gay people should be able to serve in the military openly.

There is no logical argument against it.

Exactly. No LOGICAL argument. Remember, they used to keep African-Americans in separate units for pretty much the same reasons that get used re. gays - "unit cohesion," "morale," etc. etc. Yet another instance where Eisenhower rocked - he desegregated the Army!

There's another story re. Ike - after the war (WW2) ended, the Powers that Be wanted the Army in Europe to go on a Gay Witch Hunt. Ike called in his ranking WACS and told them what the plan was. After a pause, the female officer said, "Sir, you'll have to start with me." The female NCO added, "And with me."
Ike looked at both of them for a moment, tore up the directive, and it was never mentioned again. GO IKE!

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by jerhanner

Exactly. No LOGICAL argument. Remember, they used to keep African-Americans in separate units for pretty much the same reasons that get used re. gays - "unit cohesion," "morale," etc. etc. Yet another instance where Eisenhower rocked - he desegregated the Army!

There's another story re. Ike - after the war (WW2) ended, the Powers that Be wanted the Army in Europe to go on a Gay Witch Hunt. Ike called in his ranking WACS and told them what the plan was. After a pause, the female officer said, "Sir, you'll have to start with me." The female NCO added, "And with me."
Ike looked at both of them for a moment, tore up the directive, and it was never mentioned again. GO IKE!

Great story!!