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Old 07-13-2008, 07:48 PM
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Default My first post: A different take on the canon issue...maybe?

Greetings everyone! Again, my first post..so be gentle. There has been quite some talk regarding the issue of the new films possible abuse of established canon. The ship has to be built here. McCoy was in Starfleet Academy Then. Blah blah blah. Anyway, the question that I pose to everyone here is this: If Paramount owns the license to Star Trek, isn't whatever they produce instantly canon? Example: even if in movie X they state that there are 10 planets in a particular solar system and then in movie Y they say that same system has 9 planets, aren't both established canon whether you like it or not? It is currently canon that The NX-01 existed and it also established canon that it did not exist. Aren't people mistakenly using the word 'canon' as though it is a replacement phrase for 'irrefutable, continuitous fact' ? Just a thought. And I really look forward to making many acquaintances in the future here. Thanks....
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Old 07-13-2008, 08:04 PM
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Hi! Welcome....

I guess I think contradictory canon is a problem and so rather hope they will avoid that. However, I'm not one who really nit picks the canon issues... a really good story, will gloss over canon discrepancies the way a really well cut little black dress will gloss over imperfections of the figure...
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Old 07-13-2008, 09:10 PM
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This is why I prefer the term continuity over cannon....your right everything produced and shown on screen is Cannon...but wheather it maintains continuity is another matter.
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Old 07-13-2008, 09:51 PM
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Welcome aboard, Leathart! What you propose is true that when it appears on screen (as is largely the current standard), then it is canon. As noted, the issues for fan discussion/debate arise from contradictions between separate 'facts' of canon which don't agree, due to oversight or carelessness on behalf of the TREK franchise's many creative collaborators.

Such disputes and complications also arise as fans (rightly so) often define what is/isn't canon for themselves, based on their own tastes and favorites.

In any such discussion, it's always helpful to remember that there is no one official canon, though there is the Paramount studio line and a generally-accepted base of TREK facts and figures which many fans can agree on without issue.

It's the odd 10-20% of TREK lore which causes all the ruckus... think of it as the spice to the varied and enjoyable dish which is STAR TREK. Some like it hot!
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:27 AM
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WELCOME from me also!

I think we'll se alot of devotionm to what has come before, but if it's a grey area, or makes the story work better to make a better movie I am all for bending the continuity a bit.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:18 AM
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Welcome Aboard!
On the issue of Cannon I dont really care much either way as long as I enjoy the story.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:25 AM
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Welcome!

I have to confess to being a bit of a stickler for continuity myself. It affects my enjoyment when things clearly don't fit in with what's happened before, but the I'm quite literal that way - what's onscreen 'happened' and should be factored into subsequent stories. However after 40 plus years of showing the same universe there will always be errors and inconsistencies which unintentionall (and some intentional probably) that creep in. Usually there's room for each fan to construct his own interpretation (which is why there's no one Trek universe but an indiviudual one for each fan), but gaping, giant breaks with established details does grate with me. Then again to each their own!
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed Starkiller View Post
Welcome Aboard!
On the issue of Cannon I dont really care much either way as long as I enjoy the story.
And the story doesn't suck.
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Old 07-14-2008, 05:53 AM
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Hey, welcome aboard, Leathart!

I think what you asked is a good question, for lots of reasons. Firstly, the word canon is over used and I like how you so eloquently jabbed it: Blah, blah, blah.

However, I am a writer as most of you know (and yes, I still make lots of mistake grammatically. And spelling, well...) When I first hired my editor, Barb, she cleared up a lot of this bit. (If you watch the special features on ST:TWOK, they also state her fact.)

If you lay down a rule you can't break it.

But, you can bend it if you could figure out a way that allows it to work. For example:

Captain Kirk froze, unable to move. Everyone turned to stare, seemingly unsure of what would happen next

Now with that being said, unless a magical fairy comes along or Bones has a defreezing blanket, Kirk cannot be unfrozen.

One could argue that writing and filmaking are different, and that would be true. They are different mediums, but the point is to make the viewer or reader believe in what you are relaying. By not sticking to the rules that were already set up, you break the illusion.

So with that being said, I pesonally don't care if they change canon, only if it's minor. Colors, costumes, etc... But I don't want to see the Enterprise with racing stripes or anything that drastic.

IMO, she is in good hands, though. The writers are intelligent; listen to some of their other movies. J.J. is also brilliant; watch his direction in his other films, they're tight. Not to mention the awesome advertising strategy for Cloverfield.
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:10 AM
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Welcome aboard Leathart!

Good observations on the canon issue.

Personally I usually get lost in the stories and don't get caught up on many canon details unless the inconsistency is blatant and obvious. Also, there is a whole other Trek universe in books etc. that is not generally considered canon but I also quite enjoy.

From what we've heard, JJ and crew have done their homework but are not afraid to take some liberties as the origination story of the iconic characters has yet to be done on-screen.

Ultimately, I think Star Trek XI will come down to simple arithmatic:

Good story + good directing + good acting + good cinematography + good editing + good soundtrack = great movie.
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