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  #11  
Old 07-07-2008, 12:24 PM
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Thanks, Kevin.

Also, I think we can all agree to a point that we did NOT appreciate Worf being reduced to a comedy relief role in both Insurrection and Nemesis.

However, in Nemesis, it did have a really good moment for Worf. As he and Riker lead the "repel boarders" team on that mysterious "deck 29", and he says: "The Romulans fought with honor." Quite an admission for a Klingon.

Believe me, the more I think about it, the more I realize just how flawed Nemesis really is.....but, for me, it's still my favorite NG film. Perhaps it's because of the cinematic feel, the big space battle at the end, some elements of the story, and the late, great Jerry Goldsmith's awesome score. (I especially loved the theme in the opening titles. Very upbeat, yet letting you know, this could be a kick a** movie.) Also with his revisiting of the ST:TMP theme when we see the Ent E in spacedock, hearkening back to the first time we saw the refit Enterprise in TMP.

And although Shinzon came out of practically nowhere, I thought Tom Hardy did a great job as the main baddie.

BTW, it is quite possible that the way the Romulans acquired the cells for Picard's clone was from the episode "Data's Day". That Romulan spy may have gotten away with Picard's cells. The timeline would certainly follow.
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  #12  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:03 PM
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Well, Martok, you put it THAT way, and Nemesis does seem a lot more likable! I have to admit, the space battles theatrically were awesome in theaters, but it just seemed like on the small screen the oomph of the special effects was lost. You could suddenly tell that it was all just CGI. And for some reason, I just didn't like the way that a ship that could tear borg cubes to shreds was beaten to a pulp by some measly reman excuse for a warbird. Sure it was a REMAN warbird, but even the Big E should have had more of a fighting chance.

I agree 100% about Jerry Goldsmith's score, he certainly outdid himself once again (then again, when did the man NOT outdo himself), but the score seemed to lose something of itself when heard on TV speakers.

By now you've probably noticed a pattern; I liked Nemesis better in theaters than on TV, which is a bad sign for a film. Perhaps that's why I like FC the best (out of the TNG films); it is just as big and epic on the small screen now as it was in theaters in 1996.
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  #13  
Old 07-07-2008, 07:19 PM
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By now you've probably noticed a pattern; I liked Nemesis better in theaters than on TV, which is a bad sign for a film.
That's the way I felt about Lost In Space. It looked awesome up on the big screen, but it lost a LOT when it came to video.
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  #14  
Old 07-08-2008, 02:42 AM
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That's the way I felt about Lost In Space. It looked awesome up on the big screen, but it lost a LOT when it came to video.
I hated the film version of Lost In Space. So many great actors wasted with dumb dialogue.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:09 AM
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I know I'm in the minority, but I actually rated Insurrection above First Contact. I loved the beginning of First Contact with the second Borg offensive on Earth, but once the time travel kicked in, it really became a snoozefest for me from that point onward saved only by the performances of Stewart, Woodward, and Krige.

Despite its few cringeworthy moments, I thought Insurrection showed the TNG crew as just being people and not just walking uniforms. I kind of wished Star Trek X had actually followed up on the idea planted in this movie that something wasn't quite right in the inner sanctums of both the Starfleet Admiralty and the Federation Council and made something of a duology of it.

Even though I think the basic storyline of Nemesis was way too fanboyish and over-the-top for my liking, I found the movie was better on the second viewing. Generations still kind of leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because we had two unnecessary deaths in that movie, IMO...

But if there really was one gripe I might have with the TNG movies was that they adhered to much to the formula from the TOS movies. All of a sudden Picard became a captain who always led the away teams and was usually running somewhere with a phaser rifle; Riker became the voice of reason delegating authority from the bridge; and Data was one who could be talked to about matters of the heart. And like the TOS movies, "the other four" were pretty much relegated to the background with occasional moments here and there.

I know there's only so much character time you can give in a 2-hour film, but then I think it might have helped if not every TNG movie was a showcase for Picard and Data...IMO, of course.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:22 AM
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I know I'm in the minority, but I actually rated Insurrection above First Contact. I loved the beginning of First Contact with the second Borg offensive on Earth, but once the time travel kicked in, it really became a snoozefest for me from that point onward saved only by the performances of Stewart, Woodward, and Krige.

Despite its few cringeworthy moments, I thought Insurrection showed the TNG crew as just being people and not just walking uniforms. I kind of wished Star Trek X had actually followed up on the idea planted in this movie that something wasn't quite right in the inner sanctums of both the Starfleet Admiralty and the Federation Council and made something of a duology of it.

Even though I think the basic storyline of Nemesis was way too fanboyish and over-the-top for my liking, I found the movie was better on the second viewing. Generations still kind of leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because we had two unnecessary deaths in that movie, IMO...

But if there really was one gripe I might have with the TNG movies was that they adhered to much to the formula from the TOS movies. All of a sudden Picard became a captain who always led the away teams and was usually running somewhere with a phaser rifle; Riker became the voice of reason delegating authority from the bridge; and Data was one who could be talked to about matters of the heart. And like the TOS movies, "the other four" were pretty much relegated to the background with occasional moments here and there.

I know there's only so much character time you can give in a 2-hour film, but then I think it might have helped if not every TNG movie was a showcase for Picard and Data...IMO, of course.
So what in Insurection worked for you?
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  #17  
Old 07-08-2008, 05:29 AM
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So what in Insurection worked for you?
It just was essential ST. And you cannot always have Earth in danger (like in 1,4,8 and 10). This old trick usually works and I am happy whenever they leave that concept, even when viewers care less about folks from Veridian III or some hundred Ba'ku.
Of course the old movies were much better than TOS, and the TNG movies lacked this super-improvement compared to the series. Picard perverted into an action hero and always Picard-data-centric stories, but if you take the real bad movies, 1, 5 and 10, the new and the old all hit 2/3 good
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:51 AM
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It just was essential ST. And you cannot always have Earth in danger (like in 1,4,8 and 10). This old trick usually works and I am happy whenever they leave that concept, even when viewers care less about folks from Veridian III or some hundred Ba'ku.
Of course the old movies were much better than TOS, and the TNG movies lacked this super-improvement compared to the series. Picard perverted into an action hero and always Picard-data-centric stories, but if you take the real bad movies, 1, 5 and 10, the new and the old all hit 2/3 good
Hmmm interesting views indeed. Never thought of it that way.

But I thought it was contrived, weak story and plot points. I figured out the ending 10 mins into the film. This was a sad follow up for Frakes as a director, it seemsed like he tried to make a 90 min. action peice instead of a film.

Most of the charaters were poorly used. The "battle" in the Briar Patch basically turnned into "The Riker Show." It came off as an ego boost, not a storyline.

I did however like that Picard had an age appropriate love intrest, meaning she wasn't 19 years old. While I abhore the way Data got so easily damaged, I did love some of his good moments in "self preservation" mode.
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  #19  
Old 07-08-2008, 10:11 AM
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Hmmm interesting views indeed. Never thought of it that way.

But I thought it was contrived, weak story and plot points. I figured out the ending 10 mins into the film. This was a sad follow up for Frakes as a director, it seemsed like he tried to make a 90 min. action peice instead of a film.

Most of the charaters were poorly used. The "battle" in the Briar Patch basically turnned into "The Riker Show." It came off as an ego boost, not a storyline.

I did however like that Picard had an age appropriate love intrest, meaning she wasn't 19 years old. While I abhore the way Data got so easily damaged, I did love some of his good moments in "self preservation" mode.
I guess the synthesis between our two points is: good story, bad execution, somehow like "Generations" (but not as worse).
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  #20  
Old 07-08-2008, 10:27 AM
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I guess the synthesis between our two points is: good story, bad execution, somehow like "Generations" (but not as worse).

I guess you summed it up well. It was TV episode effort, not a movie.
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