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  #21  
Old 06-30-2008, 09:00 AM
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Strictly speaking, democracy does not really guarantee the rights of the individual or a minority or anyone's rights for that matter. Those kind of rights are guaranteed by a constitutional system. Without a constitutional system in place even a democracy, by it's very nature, will degenerate into nothing more than a tyrannical majority.
Well said. Even with a constitution, it seems rights can still be circumvented.
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  #22  
Old 06-30-2008, 09:08 AM
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Strictly speaking, democracy does not really guarantee the rights of the individual or a minority or anyone's rights for that matter. Those kind of rights are guaranteed by a constitutional system. Without a constitutional system in place even a democracy, by it's very nature, will degenerate into nothing more than a tyrannical majority.
That is why I wrote democratic control and rights. Take a look at Israel: they don't deny it when they assassinate someone. I would prefer other countries to follow this example and not be so hypocritical. If we want someone to do the dirty work, we should admit that WE wanted it. And if this includes political murder, then we should be honest, discuss it and write a law if there's a majority in for it.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:08 AM
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The thing is a constitution is nothing more than a piece of paper that says that a government (whether it is a monarchy, a democracy, a republic, aristocracy, or any other type of government) can or cannot do this or that. Like any other legal document, it's effectiveness is dependent on the willingness of everyone to follow it. Whether you're talking about the actual government politicians, or the regular average voter, people are going to dislike aspects of the constitution based on their own point of view. The constitution places limitations on government power. If we are to think of ourselves as a democracy where it is a government of the people and by the people, then that means that those limitations of power are not just for politicians but for us as voters.

Now that's just basic theory. How that applies to actual current issues is certainly up for debate.
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  #24  
Old 06-30-2008, 09:10 AM
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The thing is a constitution is nothing more than a piece of paper that says that a government (whether it is a monarchy, a democracy, a republic, aristocracy, or any other type of government) can or cannot do this or that. Like any other legal document, it's effectiveness is dependent on the willingness of everyone to follow it. Whether you're talking about the actual government politicians, or the regular average voter, people are going to dislike aspects of the constitution based on their own point of view. The constitution places limitations on government power. If we are to think of ourselves as a democracy where it is a government of the people and by the people, then that means that those limitations of power are not just for politicians but for us as voters.

Now that's just basic theory. How that applies to actual current issues is certainly up for debate.
I think we can all agree that cureently things are not running as intended by the Constition and bill of roghts.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:18 AM
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To me, this really sums it all up.

"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:23 AM
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To me, this really sums it all up.

"The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life."
-Theodore Roosevelt
Woah, I have to argue with that. Prosperity and peace and safety, that is what most humans desire. Don't care much about duty. The problem is that many Americans and Europeans only care about THEIR prosperity and saftey not about the one of those people who can't afford a bowl of rice a day.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:28 AM
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Woah, I have to argue with that. Prosperity and peace and safety, that is what most humans desire. Don't care much about duty. The problem is that many Americans and Europeans only care about THEIR prosperity and saftey not about the one of those people who can't afford a bowl of rice a day.
Both of you made great points!
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  #28  
Old 06-30-2008, 09:44 AM
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Both of you made great points!
Thumbs up for Zardoz, he embraces IDIC

Some months ago, there was a debate in Germany because a handy fabricant moved its production facility from Germany to Romania. The enterprise was portrayed as evil capitalist who wanted to increase its profit (who would not?) and did not care about the workers who lose their job (Germans believe in one-life-one-job ) but no one thought about the workers in Romania who live in poverty and gain from these new jobs.
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  #29  
Old 06-30-2008, 09:50 AM
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Woah, I have to argue with that. Prosperity and peace and safety, that is what most humans desire. Don't care much about duty. The problem is that many Americans and Europeans only care about THEIR prosperity and saftey not about the one of those people who can't afford a bowl of rice a day.
Well Roosevelt wasn't arguing against the desire for prosperity and peace. But rather prosperity and peace at any price. A corporate CEO certainly gains a great deal of prosperity. But I think many would argue at the price of everyone else. Roosevelt's philosophy was that people needed to work for what they want rather than let someone else work and pay the price for them.
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  #30  
Old 06-30-2008, 09:53 AM
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Thumbs up for Zardoz, he embraces IDIC

Some months ago, there was a debate in Germany because a handy fabricant moved its production facility from Germany to Romania. The enterprise was portrayed as evil capitalist who wanted to increase its profit (who would not?) and did not care about the workers who lose their job (Germans believe in one-life-one-job ) but no one thought about the workers in Romania who live in poverty and gain from these new jobs.
Well let's not call the Nobel peace prize people just yet, ok?? LOL

I do belive in diversity there is strength, people have yet to reailze it can be a binding force of untiy.

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Well Roosevelt wasn't arguing against the desire for prosperity and peace. But rather prosperity and peace at any price. A corporate CEO certainly gains a great deal of prosperity. But I think many would argue at the price of everyone else. Roosevelt's philosophy was that people needed to work for what they want rather than let someone else work and pay the price for them.
I can definately see that, it would follow his other philosophies. He was very much into to "help others you must help yourself" and "you can make it if you have the will" kind of mindsets.
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