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  #11  
Old 06-30-2008, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Akula2ssn View Post
Also in the briefing that Spock gave in the beginning of the movie, he did say that there was some opposition within the Empire regarding a peaceful solution, in favor of a military solution.
Gorkon's stance was not a popular one in the Empire. Even his daughter makes the statement that if it had not been for Praxis, that his veiws may never have seen the light of day.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:18 AM
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In all likelihood, Gorkon was not the only one who's life was in danger from the very beginning. Anyone associated with him and his plans would have been a target from the get go, including his daughter.
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2008, 07:24 AM
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In all likelihood, Gorkon was not the only one who's life was in danger from the very beginning. Anyone associated with him and his plans would have been a target from the get go, including his daughter.
That's why she was a great sucessor of Gorkon IMO. Continuing the Khitomer Conference and appeasing the hardliners was a a dangerous andtough job.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:28 AM
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When you think about it, had she even been involved in the conspiracy, the Khitomer Conference wouldn't have happened in the first place. They would have gone back to Qo'noS, executed Kirk and the peace process would have been off the table. Objective achieved for the conspirators. This would have shortened the actual operation and reduced the likelihood that they would be discovered and stopped. Despite what some conspiracy theorists like to think, having an overly complex plan is usually the worst way to go.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:40 AM
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Furthermore, had Kirk been executed (which clearly Chang was expecting would have happened), that probably would have been a powerful and immediate rallying cry within the Federation for war. However if Kirk had not been found guilty in the first place, then the Klingon hardliners would have been up in arms.

I suspect that Azetbur was probably the reason why Kirk got life in prison and not an immediate death sentence. She probably pulled a few strings with the judge. Keeping him alive would help keep any hardliners in the Federation from using Kirk as a martyr. Finding him guilty and imprisoning him would at least pacify the Klingon hardliners for a while.
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:47 AM
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We've seen alot of Kilingons involved in tracherous activity, but usally, except for the Duras family, they felt they were acrting in the best interests of the Empire.
If you remember "Affliction"/"Divergence" from ENT, the two-parter that dealt with the Klingon augment virus, there was a Klingon admiral who contacted the guy from Section 31 to arrange for Phlox's kindnapping. And afterwards he told him that he lied to him about the mutual benefit of the mission and did not need him anymore (so much about the use of intelligence agencies ).
I always thought the honour philosophy is something Klingons need to keep their society intact, like Vulcans need to supress their emotions to keep themselves intact. But not all Klingons are honourable and not all Vulcans supress their emotions.
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:13 AM
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If you remember "Affliction"/"Divergence" from ENT, the two-parter that dealt with the Klingon augment virus, there was a Klingon admiral who contacted the guy from Section 31 to arrange for Phlox's kindnapping. And afterwards he told him that he lied to him about the mutual benefit of the mission and did not need him anymore (so much about the use of intelligence agencies ).
I always thought the honour philosophy is something Klingons need to keep their society intact, like Vulcans need to supress their emotions to keep themselves intact. But not all Klingons are honourable and not all Vulcans supress their emotions.
Yes, I remmber that episode well. Having worked for intel agencies, soemtimes you have to trust a source you know might be lying, or is shaky. It's an intel's agency's job to look at the "big picture" of an operation.

I think the Klingons are generally an honorable people, of course there's allways going ot be outsiders, malcontents, ect. The basic Klingon honor system is not too far removed from the Honor system of ancient Japan.
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  #18  
Old 06-30-2008, 08:22 AM
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Yes, I remmber that episode well. Having worked for intel agencies, soemtimes you have to trust a source you know might be lying, or is shaky. It's an intel's agency's job to look at the "big picture" of an operation.

I think the Klingons are generally an honorable people, of course there's allways going ot be outsiders, malcontents, ect. The basic Klingon honor system is not too far removed from the Honor system of ancient Japan.
Since you have experience with intelligence, you definitely can judge it better, but the problems start when the agency acts beyond democratic control and rights. This can be illegal gathering of information as well as assissinations and coup d'etats. Of course the lack of democratic control is prevalent in the entire military.
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:43 AM
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Since you have experience with intelligence, you definitely can judge it better, but the problems start when the agency acts beyond democratic control and rights. This can be illegal gathering of information as well as assissinations and coup d'etats. Of course the lack of democratic control is prevalent in the entire military.
As clich'e as it may sound, sometimes an agency has to act outside of bounds in extraordianry circumstances. But as a day to day policy, NO WAY.
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  #20  
Old 06-30-2008, 08:54 AM
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Strictly speaking, democracy does not really guarantee the rights of the individual or a minority or anyone's rights for that matter. Those kind of rights are guaranteed by a constitutional system. Without a constitutional system in place even a democracy, by it's very nature, will degenerate into nothing more than a tyrannical majority.
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