[Commodore]

Personally, I never had a problem with there being two (or more) different scale versions of the Klingon Bird of Prey--whereas Starfleet would build two totally different designs, the Klingon Defense Forces would just build a larger and more powerful version of an existing design. It would just be a different way the Klingons do things, IMO...

[Saquist]

Originally Posted by martok2112

I would say though, that the ship with THE MOST scaling problems has been the Klingon Bird of Prey....which is why we ended up with at least three or four classes of just that ship:

1. B'rel (scout ship...Kruge's vessel, Chang's vessel, Klaa's vessel)
2. D-12 (B'rel variant?.... Lursa and B'tor's ship)
3. K'vort (Battlecruiser class....mistakenly said to be larger than the Negh'var class in the DS9 Technical Manual...yeah...I had major problems with those numbers.)

I remember in the old FASA Star Trek RPG/Starship Tactical Combat Simulator, there were three classes of the BoP. The Bird of Prey which was the scout class wessel (apologies to Chekov), and the Stronger Bird, which, IIRC, was a destroyer class, and the Great Bird, which was almost battlecruiser class. Beyond that, using the Construction Manual rules, I did stats for the K'vort, which I jokingly referred to as the "Big Bird" (even thought of switching its color scheme from greens and reds to canary yellow..LOL!), and created a fighter sized (four man crew) Bird of Prey called the "Little Wing" (with apologies to Jimi Hendrix).

I thought the Defiant was worse because well....
just listen to Commodore. We never followed on Bird of Prey for very long so it's possible their are different sizes.

Originally Posted by Commodore

Personally, I never had a problem with there being two (or more) different scale versions of the Klingon Bird of Prey--whereas Starfleet would build two totally different designs, the Klingon Defense Forces would just build a larger and more powerful version of an existing design. It would just be a different way the Klingons do things, IMO...

Indeed.
After TNG I never thought there was just one size of BoP

[kevin]

Originally Posted by Saquist

Because I first saw the DS9 with the the 170 meter length I was a pretty staunch supporter of that stat. It made more sense to me that Defiant was about half the length of Intrepid, that it was a large ship close to Miranda's size such as it's often seen.

However this is the first time I've changed that position because the CAD scaling shows otherwise. But I found that Defiant has lot of scaling problems....

See here. : http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ar...t-problems.htm

Interesting article, and it does appear that the defiant was treated differently in terms of establishing it's dimensions. Who would have though that one little ship could cause so much debate on that site about it's size!!

Though I also read their ideas of registry numbers with interest!

[Saquist]

The debate irratated me at first.
I felt that Defiant's size was well understood but then I looked at this page and I understood.

[Buckman]

i would think all the older ships like the Mirada class were in Mothballs. so it would be safe to think that by the time the Dom War started that all ships that called be made combat ready would be. and the older class ships would have been easier to mass produce then the newer ones.

[captian beckett]

who seen a pic of the luna class ship

[Saquist]

Originally Posted by Buckman

i would think all the older ships like the Mirada class were in Mothballs. so it would be safe to think that by the time the Dom War started that all ships that called be made combat ready would be. and the older class ships would have been easier to mass produce then the newer ones.

Those ships wouldn't give you the opportunity to win. They go down very quickly.

Originally Posted by captian beckett

who seen a pic of the luna class ship

There is a Thread about the USS TITAN luna class starship.

[captian beckett]

its well cool

[Saquist]

Yes it's a good ship and he just posted a constitution varient for the Luna Class.

[williamLX]

Personally I have never liked the Defiant design, it just is not a Federation Starship. The built in warp engines would make it much harder to repair following major damage and much more likely that any engine damage would destroy the whole ship - so doesn't make sense for a warship. Also the pulse phaser would deliver less energy than a normal phaser so again they don't make sense.