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Old 05-20-2008, 10:34 AM
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Default The 400th Anniversary...

This Sunday, as the Pheonix polar probe lands on the planet Mars, it will be taking place on the 400th anniversary of the church threatening Galileo, and his family, with torture and death if he didn't recant his "insulting theory" that the Earth moved around the sun.

I find the irony delicious. (I guess we all know who was right about that argument, huh?)

Before that, there was the burning of the great Library of Alexandria, and the murder of it's currator, Hyapatia of Alexandria. (Yes, they killed a woman who was the gaurdian of knowledge, and did so by cutting away her body using the sharpened edges of seashells. She was attacked by almost 100 religious zelots.) There was also Bruno, who was burned at the stake for bringing up the possibility that there might be other life, and other people, out among the stars.

Kind of makes you think again about the current evolution vs creationisim debate. I still think that religious people, who chose to remain ignorrant (in it's truest sense of the word... these people want to ignore the facts in favor of things they have no evidence for...) should not be allowed to influence science.

They're holding mankind back.

It was 400 years ago, this coming Sunday.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:11 AM
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I study at Humbold University here in Berlin. There is a huge square right in front of the main building. Whenever I cross the square I feel really uncomfortable, because that place (Bebelplatz) was where enlightened educated students build a huge pile of books and burned them while hailing their Führer.

Ignorance seems to be an anthropological constant.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:14 AM
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Hey, botany... what's your field?
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:16 AM
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Just be careful to understand that it isn't religion that tends to hold us back but zealotry. And then there are zealots in the scientific community too. The so called "Brights" whose egos seem to preclude any more knowing or powerful force in the universe. That is of equal arrogance and folly.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:20 AM
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I remember visiting the KZ in Dachau... I was horrified by just being there, knowing what happened there...
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post
Hey, botany... what's your field?
History.

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Originally Posted by Yagami Crewman View Post
Just be careful to understand that it isn't religion that tends to hold us back but zealotry. And then there are zealots in the scientific community too. The so called "Brights" whose egos seem to preclude any more knowing or powerful force in the universe. That is of equal arrogance and folly.
Well, I agree partly.
Scientists can be the same ammount of Jerk as a priest could be, of course. There is just the slight difference of the culture. Science uses to care for debate, argument and such things. The danger comes when regimes destroy that culture and equip science with the right amount of jerkishness.

Religion is a very slight percentage easier to equip and influence, because its not based on arguments but faith.

But lets not forget: Many scientists have been religious and many religious people are scientists. Jerk is jerk, you may meet him at the university or in church.
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Old 05-20-2008, 12:33 PM
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Jerks... (or if you prefer, zelots) are not so bad on an individual basis... it's when they start banding together and forcing their way via legislation, intimidation, or pitchfork and torch weilding mobs that they become something that needs to be stopped.

On the other end of the scale, I was watching BBC America last night, and they had a report on the UK's House of Commons debating the use of "human/animal hybrid embreyos" for genetic research. Unlike the US, whose dullard president banned all such research to gain support of the religious fanatics (again, they hold us back) the UK body intelligently is allowing the research to continue. Soon they may have the solution to a myriad of diseases... and again the US shoots itself in the foot, falling behind due to religious ignorrance.

Tens of thousands of people will suffer and die, because these religious "jerks" read "Frankenstien" far too literally.
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Old 05-20-2008, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yagami Crewman View Post
Just be careful to understand that it isn't religion that tends to hold us back but zealotry. And then there are zealots in the scientific community too. The so called "Brights" whose egos seem to preclude any more knowing or powerful force in the universe. That is of equal arrogance and folly.
Then again, I don't recall masses of scientists gathering in town squares to burn mountains of Bibles. By definition, I think there is less zealotry in science than in religion, certainly in regard to book burning, organized protests at funerals, church-sanctioned executions and so on.
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Old 05-20-2008, 01:32 PM
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Then again, I don't recall masses of scientists gathering in town squares to burn mountains of Bibles. By definition, I think there is less zealotry in science than in religion, certainly in regard to book burning, organized protests at funerals, church-sanctioned executions and so on.
That is called zealotry and in the 1930s the same thing happened without priests so like I say to say religion (Which includes ALL religion BTW Christian Jewish, Shinto) creates intolerance is perhaps misleading. Religion is oft an EXCUSE for zealots to act in hate.

As for science... I said nothing against science. Only those whose egos presume there cannot be a divine spark in this universe. They lack the power but have the same arrogance of the Pope spinning a Globe and putting his finger down to divide ownership of the nonchristain world between Spain and Portugal.

Isaac Newton was a Religious man who said he believed Gravity worked because "God put his finger on it."

But it was Stephen Hawking who said it best: "Understanding HOW the universe works is one thing... Understanding WHY would be to know the mind of God."
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Old 05-20-2008, 01:46 PM
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I choose to try and pursue both mind and soul. That's all. To me both are vital to nourish and grow.
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