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Old 05-15-2008, 04:30 PM
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Default Starfleet Fleet Strength, Ship Types, and miscellaneous related datum and dribble....

I thought I'd start this topic because there are a few things about Starfleet that I find odd.

First topic: "Let's make it BIGGER!"

In the 23rd Century TOS era it's generally conceded that the Constitution Class is the most powerful ship fielded by the major star nations of the day. D-7s and War Eagles were dangerous but manageable opponents. (The Fesarius doesn't count because it is accepted that whoever the First Federation are, the UFP and the Klingons et al aren't in their league...)

A century later; however, look at how many ships are able to go toe to toe with the Flagship of the Federation! The Romulan Warbird first seen in "The Neutral Zone" is bigger than a Galaxy and the Romulan Commander in "Contagion" felt quite up to handling the Enterprise. The Ferengi don't even really have a centralized government but their Marauders seemed on par with the Enterprise-D. The Sona are considered a minor Star Empire by Dougherty but yet they field two ships capable of pounding the snot out of the Enterprise-E. In the Delta Quadrant the technologically backward Kazon (Who are so inconsequential the Borg won't assimilate them!) who are also another divided people not even using ships of their own design are hitting Voyager with an inordinate amount of firepower for the first couple of seasons.

And of course Shinzon and his Scimitar... Where the heck did this beast come from????? How did they hide it from the Romulan Senate?

People joke about TOS and the way the transporters would be taken out of the picture so Kirk couldn't just shout "Scotty! Save my bacon!" But the writers in later years seemed to have found an equivalent gimmick to create fake drama with the "Oh crud! We can't possibly outfight them! We'll either have to run or bore them to death..."
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Yagami Crewman View Post
The Sona are considered a minor Star Empire by Dougherty but yet they field two ships capable of pounding the snot out of the Enterprise-E.
I would argue that the two ships in question had been outfitted and modified to operate normally in the Briar Patch, while the Enterprise had no such advantage. They were also using illegal weapons systems.

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How did they hide it from the Romulan Senate?
I believe it is generally accepted that it was built on or in orbit of Remus -- keep in mind that Remus and its inhabitants were below second-class; no Romulans would visit or pay any attention to them if they could avoid it. Also, if they perfected their 'perfect' cloaking technology before any other construction began, it would have been a simple matter to cloak the manufacturing facility.
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:19 PM
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I feel that in the 23'd century Starfleet was far more military minded then in the 24th. The Klingons and Romulans were a very active and rel threat. There had been a war with the Klingon's only stopped by the intervention of the Organians and Romulan incursions had cost the Federation several outposts...tensions with the Tholians were also high so Starfleet had to field agressive military oriented craft.

By Picard's era the Federation is at peace on all fronts. The Klingons are allies, the Romulans hide behind the neutral zone for the most part and there hasn't been any real trouble in a while. Diplomacy rather than Disruptors are the order of the day. So the enterprise D is more of an explorer than a combat vessel. Sure it still has good defensive capabilites but the main focus is on scientific exploration.

It's interesting to note that in the alternate time line of Yesterday's Enterprise when the D was a full on military ship it could handle superior forces and come out on top...was able to take out two of three K'vort class cruisers as I recall before capitulating AND it had to defend the Enterprise C.

I also think that this is part of the reason the Federation was so ill prepared to fight the Dominion.. and Borg when first encountered.their focus had shifted. When you have no enemies...you have no reason to keep the sword sharp..even if that sword is the Flagship of the Federation.
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Old 05-15-2008, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TrekkieTechie View Post
I believe it is generally accepted that it was built on or in orbit of Remus -- keep in mind that Remus and its inhabitants were below second-class; no Romulans would visit or pay any attention to them if they could avoid it. Also, if they perfected their 'perfect' cloaking technology before any other construction began, it would have been a simple matter to cloak the manufacturing facility.
I don't know if that is really generally accepted. You would kind of have to cloak the construction of the facility to begin with. Not to mention be able to make sure that the procurement of the materials for the construction of the facility and development of technologies as well as the construction of the ship was not noticed. The Romulans certainly had a garrison on Remus to oversee the slave labor and account for the amount of work done as well as what was being produced as a result of the labor done. With the totalitarian system that the Romulans had, I find it highly unlikely (but certainly not impossible) that they wouldn't have noticed something odd happening in their home system. I actually suspect that where ever the Scimitar was built, the Remans probably had help from someone. And if the ship was indeed built in the Romulan home system like in orbit of Remus, then they probably had some help from within the Romulan government. When you think of it, we really do not know when the conspiracy between the Remans, Tal'aura, Donatra, and Suran began.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:47 PM
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Well, the ENT-D in "Yesterday's Enterprise" was itself, enarly destroyed.

You also have to remember that Voyager was not the flagship. It was a relatively small ship and small crew with relatively low fire-power.

However, the Enterprise D was nothing to scoff at. In that episode where Troi is captured, the Romulan captain has a respect, and even a small fear, of the Federation.

The Duras sisters also said they would be no match for a Galaxy Class starship.
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Old 05-16-2008, 04:09 AM
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Well, the ENT-D in "Yesterday's Enterprise" was itself, enarly destroyed.

You also have to remember that Voyager was not the flagship. It was a relatively small ship and small crew with relatively low fire-power.

However, the Enterprise D was nothing to scoff at. In that episode where Troi is captured, the Romulan captain has a respect, and even a small fear, of the Federation.

The Duras sisters also said they would be no match for a Galaxy Class starship.
But oddly enough they caused the destruction of the ENT-D.
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Old 05-16-2008, 12:28 PM
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But oddly enough they caused the destruction of the ENT-D.
Which itself made me wonder: couldn't scanners just detect shield frequency?
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Old 05-17-2008, 10:27 PM
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Which itself made me wonder: couldn't scanners just detect shield frequency?
How do you propose to detect shield frequency through the shields???
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Old 05-17-2008, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon_Coast_Trekkie View Post
Well, the ENT-D in "Yesterday's Enterprise" was itself, enarly destroyed.

You also have to remember that Voyager was not the flagship. It was a relatively small ship and small crew with relatively low fire-power.

However, the Enterprise D was nothing to scoff at. In that episode where Troi is captured, the Romulan captain has a respect, and even a small fear, of the Federation.

The Duras sisters also said they would be no match for a Galaxy Class starship.
Where Troi is kidnapped... Wasn't that Ferengi? "Menage Troi?" If that's the one I think it had a lot to do with the Ferengi Captain personally not wanting to chance dying when Picard is acting like he's readying to fight to the death over Lwaxanna.

As for the Duras ship... It was an older ship.. Not exactly first rate... Guess their best ships had been chewed up in the Civil War.
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Old 05-18-2008, 10:34 AM
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No that was the Romulans. "Face of the Enemy" was the episode. Troi was kidnapped and her face altered so that she could pose as a major from the Tal'shiar. The Romulan captain wasn't particularly thrilled about the possibility of engaging the Enterprise even though they had the element of surprise from being cloaked.
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