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  #21  
Old 05-14-2008, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
Housing rules should be enforced. Legally, you are suppose to have 1 bedroom per every 2 people (sometime 3 people depending on square feet) and those 2 pople are either Married, Engaged, or in a Relationship.. and Children have to be the same sex and within 5 years of age of each other. Livingrooms are not considered Bedrooms. This means that if you have a family of 5... 2 parents, 2 boys, and a girl. the parents and girl must have their own separate bedrooms and the boys, if within 5 years of each other can have a 3rd room shared.. or if more than 5 years age difference, then each have a separate room.

This is pretty much standard across the United States under tha Housing Authority.. however it is not being enforced.. They should enforce this law as well since Most Illegals cram 6 to 12 people into an efficiency apartment (I have seen this personally on hundreds of ocasions) so that they can send even more money across the border..

We have laws.. they are just not enforced the way they should be..
If ANYONE is drawing assistance from the housing authority then they need to abide by the rules regulating it. If they do not draw funds from housing authority then they can do whatever the heck they want as long as their landlord allows it (assuming they are renting) If I owned a mobile home and rented the space it is parked on, then I could cram as many people as I want into that house and I would NOT be breaking any laws that I know of. Landlord/tenant rules are NOT part of this. Funny you mention the housing authority because I am a landlord and have tenants that are recieving benefits. I know the system.

There is nothing illegal about saving your money on more meaningful things than making yourself more comfortable when you sleep. To many people an apartment is just a place to wash up and sleep at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
As for catching an Illegal.. 1st offense, 3 months jail at his expense (or put into a Work Release program with electronic monitoring with all money going to the state) and then deported. 2nd offense, Prison for 2 years (this is already a work program to begin with. State Jail and Wackenhutt facilities excluded. Texas Prison system is 100% self sufficient with free labor all year round), then deported. 3rd offense, Lifetime imprisonment (3 strikes law)..
i applaud texas for having a 100% self sufficient prison system. I will take your word for it that it is, although I find it unlikely. Your sentances seem a bit harsh to me, but I agree more needs to be done in order to make illegal crossing less attractive, but only AFTER the legal immigration system is fixed and able to handle the demand, AND when a solution (compromise) is reached for those already here.

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Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
Increase boder patrol and increase detection technology isung infrared, motion detection, satallite imaging, more personel armed with Tazers and non letal weapons like the Bean Shotgun or rubber bullet rifle. Line the borders with Razor Wire 6 feet thick 8 feet high, Texas Prison Issue razor wire.. the type that is designed to make you bleed out.

Make things as tough as possible for people trying to get in Illegally so that they will decide to come over using legal methods..

If the US finally puts it's foot down, then things will get better...
As I have already stated i am FOR better enforcement of our borders. I believe non-lethal means should utilized; however our men and woman serving at the border must have the means to properly defend themselves if they are attacked by criminals. It does happen. I think you agree with me.

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Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
If you don't think that they are hurting our economy :

Out of a total immigrant population of 37.9 million, an estimated 11.3 million are illegals

That is from Washington Post March 2008.

Lets say that the average american pays $2000 a year in taxes. $2,000 * 11.3 million = $22,600,000,000 this year alone that could go into our schools, roads, medicade, Housing, Food stamps.. this is excluding Social Security and Medicare..
I don't think economists agree what the overall effect of illegal immigration is on our economy. What you state as proof that it hurts our economy is only PART of the big picture. Taxes are a small part. They rent apartments, buy cars, eat at restaraunts, buy clothes and electronics, etc... all of which HELPS our economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
So, in short, I support a more forceful approach to Illegals.. They can become US Citizens, but they must pay their back dues. Otherwise, send them off or lock them away in work prisons since they want to work so bad.. at least it is something that will help the US economy grow, not their country of origin's economy.
So you think locking people up helps our economy? I believe prisons are a drain on our resources and NOT a help.

Last edited by MrQ1701 : 05-14-2008 at 06:37 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-14-2008, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrous View Post
Taking our jobs? I really frown on this argument since most illegals are put into menial jobs that while important, not many Americans would do. Where I live, you don't see very many non-hispanics scrubbing toilets, washing cars, clearing tables, or working in the fields. It isn't because they are stealing those jobs, it is because no one else will do them. Anyway, these topics always make me uncomfortable because there are no easy answers.
Very True. I agree with you one hundred percent. I hope I did NOT imply I felt they were "taking our jobs". Which post were you responding?

Last edited by MrQ1701 : 05-14-2008 at 05:49 PM. Reason: I had to insert the "NOT"!!
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  #23  
Old 05-14-2008, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MrQ1701 View Post
Very True. I agree with you one hundred percent. I hope I did NOT imply I felt they were "taking our jobs". Which post were you responding?
Oh sorry. I was agreeing with post #4 by Trekie.

Last edited by Ferrous : 05-14-2008 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Being nice and updating the quote that was edited.
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  #24  
Old 05-14-2008, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
Her dad was an Illegal Alien.. got deported 2 times and then finally went through legal channels.. He's been an American Citizen for over 28 years now. If he had gone through legal channels the first time, he would have never been deported..
Good for him! I mean that for real. You are right, he would have never been deported had he done it legally the first time. Ever ask him why he did it (crossed illegally), not once, but twice?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
I am a Right Wing Conservative Republican, a Christian one at that, who believes in all else keeping America.. well America..
I never would have guessed.(insert sarcasm) You really did NOT need to make this statement. I think the majority of people who will read this would have guessed correctly after reading your previous post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
Yes this country was founded by many different nations.. THEN we became our own nation.. We welcome everyone into this country, and I advocate for that.. But we also made LAWS for becoming a citizen or even to visit the USA. I have no problems with immigrants So long as they go through the proper LEGAL channels.. .
I do not want to nit-pick, but the U.S. was not founded by many other nations. I know what you meant though, many people from all over the world immigrated here and became citizens. I agree laws need to be better enforced, but at the same time the system needs to be fixed. You wouldn't put a band-aid on a chest wound bullet hole would you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
Those that want to sneak in.. I have no pity for them because they hurt the economy of the country I love..
I already touched on this in my earlier post. This statement is HIGHLY debatable, NOT fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
As for speaking, reading, and writing English..

What language is used in schools, not taught, but used.. through out school and college.. ENGLISH

You also have many years of English classes in school.

Road signs are written in English.

Car manuals are written in English if your car is bought in America.

Texas is switching over to English Only in both Dallas and Houston for government.. not many government offices like Drivers license, Tax office, Courthouses, etc have any Multiple language papers anymore. The local printers are printing English only..
I too believe more needs to done to persuade immigrants (not just the illegal ones) to learn English. It would benefit them the most.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
Businesses should be English only.

I'm an American.. I did a job down in Miami, Downtown.. I couldn't order a thing from any American restaurant because I could not speak Cuban.. Nothing but Cuban employees and Cuban patrons, and not a lick of English..

Yet they could speak English if they wanted too.. my skin just wasn't brown enough when I was down there. If English was the law for businesses.. there would not be any problems like that in America.. that is not unless you like being closed down.

If I go to Mexico, I speak Spanish.. I can speak Spanish just fine.. but in America, I use English.. Mexico I use Spanish. Panama I use Portuguese. In Italy, I use Italian. I use the language most common of the land, or the national language. It is the best way to communicate.. and since American Schools teach ENGLISH as the primary language, then English is the language of this land.

So yeah.. label me all you want.. but I do support what I stated above and in this post.
Like I already said, learning English would benefit immigrants more than it would benefit those that already the language.

You really think business should be english only? It should be up to the owner don't you think? If I wanted to attract spanish speaking customers I would advertise that I knew spanish. Why didn't you just leave that restaraunt and flex you financial muscle by NOT spending your money there? Maybe the owner would cater to english speakers more if he/she saw a drop in business?

I agree English is the primary language in this country. I also believe that if we catered less to spanish speaking only people then they would have more motivation to learn English, but what you propose is going wayyy too far. Be careful, some of your right wing conservitive friends might think you are so far right that you border on communism.

Last edited by MrQ1701 : 05-14-2008 at 06:48 PM.
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  #25  
Old 05-14-2008, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferrous View Post
Oh sorry. I was agreeing with post #4 by Trekie.
OOPs! I just edited my post that you quoted in this reply. I think you got what I meant.

No apology required, but thanks.
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  #26  
Old 05-14-2008, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MrQ1701 View Post
Good for him! I mean that for real. You are right, he would have never been deported had he done it legally the first time. Ever ask him why he did it (crossed illegally), not once, but twice?
I did ask him. His response was that he didn't think he could qualify for a work visa. When he actually applied for one, it took all of 2 hours from entering the building to crossing the border. It wasn't hard at all, He just was confused about the process and he doesn't deal with things he does not understand very well.

Heck, he kept going to INS after being married for 30 years to get his papers renewed.. when he went for citizenship, they finally told him that he had been a US Citizen for over 23 years. (Being married to a US Citizen for 7 years and/or having children in the US gives Citizenship to the custodial parents.)..

Imagine his suprise when they gave him a refund check for all those years of paying for papers.

The whole process started by his own words.. "He didn't think". Part of it was that he never finished school.. 7th grade.. part of it was because his family is xenophobic by nature.

If he had just taken time to ask or just gone to the offices for the information before he did something rash, he wouldn't have had to been deported.

He now states how stupid he was for not getting the information first. It would have saved him months of jail time and paying Coyotes to sneak him across the border.

He too is against Illegal Immigrants, however he is much more tolerant of them than I am, but he does his part by attempting to get them to go get their legal papers. I can support that.
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  #27  
Old 05-14-2008, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC View Post
I did ask him. His response was that he didn't think he could qualify for a work visa. When he actually applied for one, it took all of 2 hours from entering the building to crossing the border. It wasn't hard at all, He just was confused about the process and he doesn't deal with things he does not understand very well.

Heck, he kept going to INS after being married for 30 years to get his papers renewed.. when he went for citizenship, they finally told him that he had been a US Citizen for over 23 years. (Being married to a US Citizen for 7 years and/or having children in the US gives Citizenship to the custodial parents.)..

Imagine his suprise when they gave him a refund check for all those years of paying for papers.

The whole process started by his own words.. "He didn't think". Part of it was that he never finished school.. 7th grade.. part of it was because his family is xenophobic by nature.

If he had just taken time to ask or just gone to the offices for the information before he did something rash, he wouldn't have had to been deported.

He now states how stupid he was for not getting the information first. It would have saved him months of jail time and paying Coyotes to sneak him across the border.

He too is against Illegal Immigrants, however he is much more tolerant of them than I am, but he does his part by attempting to get them to go get their legal papers. I can support that.
Great immigration story. Like I said in an earlier post, those that immigrated legaly are also against illegal immigration. My guess is your father-in-law is less harsh than you when it comes to prison sentences and the like.

I do not believe things are quite that fast or easy anymore. Things in Mexico have steadily gotten worse and I am sure demand is mush higher now for visas and other papers. I agree with what others have said, fixing the legal side of things needs to be done first before we impose more strict controls for the illegal side.
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  #28  
Old 05-14-2008, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Zardoz View Post
For the record I never called you anything racially bad!!! LOL!!

I know this is touchy with alot of people.

It easy to say "it's all their fault", "they are taking jobs away from Americans", "the are the cause for gang violence", and the like.

But what we as Americans tend to forget is all of US came from somewhere else orginally!!

As far as Americans employing illegal workers, why aren't these compnaies being punished for using "illegal" labor? You never hear that.

Most of these people are escaping to make a beter life for themselves and their families they can never have there. They have EVERY motivation in the world for staying under the radar. If they try to apply for citizen status, they get treated badly.

Illegal staus women in some areas of the country are raped with horrifying fequency, becuase rapists know they won't report it. The Latain sex slave market is only second to Russian, for just this reason. Slaves!! In our own country!!!

Are there some with illegal status playing the system? Yes! But let's not let a few bad examples taint an entire people.

Are there Latinos in gangs? Yes! But there also Russian gangs, Asian gangs, you name the ethnicty, they have a gang, escpeically white. Gang behavior starts because there is no education, no beloning. Even negative attention is still better than no attention.

We should have good guidelines for staying to work towards citizenship, rewarding people who make goals, and better themselves.

I feel if we say, "Ok as long as you apply for citizenship, and do what your supposed to abiding by the laws, and trying to make an honest living, we'll assists you like any other citizen."

Let's try to be what we claim we are, a nobel and caring society.
I should have said this earlier, well said.
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  #29  
Old 05-14-2008, 07:47 PM
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MrQ1701, you are a very sane and patient man.
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  #30  
Old 05-14-2008, 08:30 PM
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Has anybody ever thought about the root cause of the immigration problem. Seems to me we wouldn't have this issue if we actually started holding the Government of Mexico accountable for their actions. Just a lay persons opinion but, maybe people wouldn't have to risk their lives sneaking across the border if the their very own Government wasn't so corrupt and actually gave a rats a$$ about it's own people.
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