[FanWriter45]

Livingston,

Well, obviously "I" want a gay charater in the Star Trek universe, since I'm a bi male, and would like the idea that people like myself still exist and are accepted as valuable members of this future society.

Actually, Wal aready has HIS wish. Religion has already been established as being a regular part of the Star Trek universe. (the chapel scene in "Balance of Terror" as a positive example... the various incarnations of the Galileo trial in several later episodes as negatives.) And then of course there's the whole Bajoran religious theme throughout DS-9.

[Livingston]

Originally Posted by FanWriter45

Livingston,

Well, obviously "I" want a gay charater in the Star Trek universe, since I'm a bi male, and would like the idea that people like myself still exist and are accepted as valuable members of this future society.

Actually, Wal aready has HIS wish. Religion has already been established as being a regular part of the Star Trek universe. (the chapel scene in "Balance of Terror" as a positive example... the various incarnations of the Galileo trial in several later episodes as negatives.) And then of course there's the whole Bajoran religious theme throughout DS-9.

Yes very much so, especially with the religious themes throughout DS9. I too would like to see homosexuals in Star Trek, someone else posted before that Roddenberry had wanted to include a gay character in TOS but never happened. It'll happen eventually, could happen in this next movie. Homosexuals, bi-sexuals have been a part of the human race though all recorded history and more than likely since it's origins, as you yourself pointed out that heterosexuality is not confined to the biological imperative to procreate in most of the animal kingdom, many other animals practice homosexuality so why should it be any different with humans?

[NCC-73515]

Exclude and attack people because of their INAH-3 size?

[Livingston]

Had no idea what a INAH-3 was, looked it up and yes, NCC, looks like some are excluding and attacking because of it.

[Pestalence_XC]

by FanWriter45
Wal, Cecil, and Pest,
I'd like to do an informal poll of you guys, if I may...
How many gay friends do you have?
Do you actually know any at all?

Why yes I do as a matter of fact.. 6 of my friends are either homosexual men or homosexual women. However, they know that I do not share their views on their sexual preference and we have agreed to #1 not discuss it and #2 to respect each others beliefs. As such, when they come over or we meet for bowling or LAN parties, they check the homosexual actions at the door. I respect them by checking my heterosexual actions at the door. Sexual preference is non issue because we respect each other enough to not talk about it or make each other feel awkward by having public displays of affection. My wife agrees with how I handle things. My homosexual friends agree... that is why we have been friends for over 10 years.

by Elizadolots
As I’m sure you are aware, IDIC was created by human writers.

Yes I sure am aware of that fact. However it was a fictious theory written by a person for a scripts to be potrayed by a fictional character which could not work in either the fictional or real world.
IDIC is a nice idology, but people on this board have already proven time and again that IDIC is false.

by Livingston
Wal, Cecil, Pestilence, just curious, despite your views on homosexuality, if there is a gay character in this new movie is it going to ruin it for you? Set up in a subtle way, I'm not talking obviously flaming gay or long drawn out romantic or sexual oriented scenes, just in a line or just a quick exchange between two characters that sets up they're obviously gay, is that going to ruin the film for you?
Lastly, I mentioned this one of the other 'gay' threads, the new Battlestar Galactica had two lesbians in a recent show, made it subtle, just a quick embrace, set it up and then they moved on, you knew the two were gay and that was it. That's a possible way I could see it handled in a star trek movie or series, it's just there, and no one in the crew seem to have a problem with it. Would you guys?

No, it would not ruin Trek or BSG for me, however I would prefer not to see it at all by either Heterosexuals or Homosexuals. The shows are about space and ships and adventure and situational drama, not about who is hopping into who's bed or who is making out with who UNLESS it has a direct bearing on future events of the plot and even then the plot had better be riviting.
People seem to think I'm Anti this or Anti-that, I make no claim either way, however I do not approve of homosexuality, though I do tolerate, and God fobid, even have friends who choose that lifestyle. The best way to keep peace is to not discuss it. I know my friends are homosexual, but since we don't discuss it, we don't argue about it and our friendship has survived for over 10 years in some cases. It falls under the "Things best left unsaid" category.

by FanWriter45
Just curious. I'm trying to figure out if you, and your two other buddies here, are just out and out bigots, or if you're just being trolls because disrupting the forum with your BS gets you off.

Um, if you look at the boards Terms of Service, I think you just violated them with a personal attack on 3 board members.
Show me any of my posts where I attacked you directly. This is a forum that is open for discussion and obviously you can't handle a philosophical debate or even remember that we are talking about a Movie and content it potrays.
If you take my posts as an attack against you, when it is clear that they are general statements, then you should probably re-evaluate yourself on the topic of "Acceptance" and "Infinate Diversity". None of my posts have been an attack on anyone, however you seem fit to attack me directly. This message has been sent to the board moderators. I will abide by their decision.

by Fanwriter45
It's gone too far afeild, and some of the stuff that these guys are saying could be damaging to young people who are trying to find unbiased information. Equating being gay with needing to be "cured" or otherwise invalidating their right to existance is just nasty in the extreme.

First, advocating being homosexual is quite biased. It is best for people who are uncertain about themselves to go to a counselor or to their parents for guidance, not a forum board that is open for debate and discussion.
Second, You take my postings out of context. This is a Star Trek board for the upcoming movie. All of my coments have been in relation to the show, which others have taken personally or as an attack, which I have done to no one.
I do agree however thay since the topic is extremely sensitive to you and aparantly others on this board, that this thread should be shut down. However I do not feel happy or sad about it. This is cyberspace. Like I take anything personally that happens on the internet.
I manage 3 forums myself, and I am an administrator on 2 others. I have help create 4 Star Trek games under the Starfleet Command title, I handle hundreds of emails a week plus work my boards which have rules that are more strict than this board has. I have not posted anything that is considered an attack on anyone. I posted a theoretical possiblity of future events and a possiblity that a movie could potray, and people take offense instead of trying to hold a philosophical debate about the context of the thread.

On a personal note, I don't care what your preference is and neither should anyone else, but out of respect for others and to prevent things from escalating like they did, it is best to not talk about it so that we can all just get along.
Personally, I don't care if they show Homosexual males or females on the show, so long as it is kept subtle, same goes for heterosexual scenes, subtle. I want the show to be about the adventure, space, ships, warp speed, the launching of the Big E and so forth. Sexual orientations should not be an issue in a Sci-Fi film.
Regardless of what you may think, I respect everyone here. Aparantly those who are in need of a "Token" character in Star Trek can not show the same respect back.
People here want open minds, however they can not handle a simple debate about possibilities for plot lines on a Sfi-Fi film that is still completely fictional.
I am not advocating that anyone be fixed, I am debating that it could be a possible future given the current status of genetic research as well as it being a plot line for the show.
I do stand by my assessment that Homosexuality is illogical and an aspect of our species that is self defeating since that aspect can not naturally sustain its existance. It can only be sustained by recruiting others into its aspect or individuals choosing to enter that aspect of their own accord.. However it is your choice and I respect that.

[Livingston]

Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC

No, it would not ruin Trek or BSG for me, however I would prefer not to see it at all by either Heterosexuals or Homosexuals. The shows are about space and ships and adventure and situational drama, not about who is hopping into who's bed or who is making out with who UNLESS it has a direct bearing on future events of the plot and even then the plot had better be riviting.
People seem to think I'm Anti this or Anti-that, I make no claim either way, however I do not approve of homosexuality, though I do tolerate, and God fobid, even have friends who choose that lifestyle. The best way to keep peace is to not discuss it. I know my friends are homosexual, but since we don't discuss it, we don't argue about it and our friendship has survived for over 10 years in some cases. It falls under the "Things best left unsaid" category.

Thanks for answering the question Pestalence. I do disagree to an extent, I think at it's heart, the show is about humanity and sexuality is certainly a huge part of the human condition and Star Trek deals with sex quite a bit. I don't have any problem if they portrayed a homosexual relationship on screen, I don't think it would need to be explored, sex in general is not explored in the show, it's just there.

As far as discussing homosexuality, you're right, just from looking at this thread it's obvious it'll enflame people and some things are best left unsaid, but pushing it under the carpet isn't going to help, one day it'll have to be dealt with to get past it, but I certainly see what you're saying and just for this discussion here, it's about homosexuality in Star Trek so discussing the possibilities I think is a good thing, if people can keep their heads cool.

[Gunny1]

If you don't bring it up, I won't have anything to comment on/ attack.

(Re: my previous 'deceased equine' post.)

I am very much an 'old fashioned' person; many people misunderstand this as to being judgmental certain ways.

(Which I can fully understand, knowing what actually happened, historically..)

My actual 'lifestyle', however, is simple - I don't care.

Not the modern mis-interpretation of that, meaning 'I'm being deliberately rude'. No, the actual, literal meaning. "I will not discuss this aspect of my life with you; I will request you do likewise for me." I will 'grant no succor to your viewpoint, as I would ask none for mine...'

Your skin-color; you genetic back-ground; your religious upbringing; your sexual preferences... I fully respect your right to have them, and will - iof necessary, defend them TO THE DEATH... but that doesn't mean I want to hear about them.

Not judgmental, certainly not PREjudgemental - but, hey; I have a friend who loves cricket. I don't care. He can love it all he wants. If, however, he wants to try and 'explain' to me WHY wickets the wacket in the forefront of United chelshem... OBVIOUSLY, I have no desire to hear about it, and the BEST you can doing trying to press details on me is to annoy me!

(*Grin*)

[FanWriter45]

Originally Posted by Pestalence_XC

I do stand by my assessment that Homosexuality is illogical and an aspect of our species that is self defeating since that aspect can not naturally sustain its existance. It can only be sustained by recruiting others into its aspect or individuals choosing to enter that aspect of their own accord.. However it is your choice and I respect that.

Ah. "Gays recruit"... I was wondering when that stereotype was going to show up. Yup. If I can just recruit four more cute guys, I'll qualify for that microwave in the catalog!

Funny how left handed people must recruit too... and "ginger" people. They're still with us despite the fact that it's a recessive gene, and, in the case of lefties, there have been several attempts to wipe them out because they were considered "tools of Satan" during the middle ages. The simple fact is, this behavioral trait is one that is part of the human animal, and it will continue to show up despite the best efforts of those who would go to extremes to eradicate it.

I've be bi since birth, as near as I can tell. And the only people who have tried to push their non-adaptive, less than civilized behavior on me have been christians, and the GOP.

Shall I take a wild stab at some of the other bigoted beliefs you probably hold?

That we're all pedophiles?
That we are all hairdressers and interrior decorators?
We all have limp wrists?
That we speak with a lisp?
That we frack anything that crosses our path?
(in the case of bi) That we deliberately spread disease?
That we are all drug addicts?
That all of our relationships are shallow and short term?

Pest, seriously, you are in some dire need of educating yourself about GLBT folk. Maybe you should try talking to your friends more. Sooner or later, with that kind of misconception in your head, it's going to come out, and it will be deeply embarassing for you, and hurtful to them.

[ST Redshirt]

This thread is now closed. People have gotten too personal with each other. Any further discussion can be done by private messages.

Thanks