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Old 04-27-2008, 07:03 PM
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Default When would the vulcans

In broken bow,the vulcans keep saying that humans werent ready for space travel,they already held us back for decades,if it wasnt for the klingon incident,would enterprise had launched on the actual due date or would the pointy ears friends still keep the earth from space travel for several more decades?.Just thinking it could be the 23 century and earth still be waiting for the vulcans to say the time is right to go.
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Old 04-27-2008, 07:38 PM
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I hate to say it, but they most likely were looking out for our better interests. Or what they believed to be our better interests. From the story they had much more experience than us, so why not listen to someone older and wiser? Sometimes humans get so anxious to venture out that "damn" the results. Well, look in our past and see how often that got us into trouble. If I had the choice for us, I would say lets take it slow and steady. Eventually we will get to the same place; why not do it in a safe manner?

(I know, its only a story; but we do have this issue even today.)
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:31 AM
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I belive their intentions were well meaning, but unrealistic.
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Old 04-28-2008, 05:36 AM
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I hate to say it, but they most likely were looking out for our better interests. Or what they believed to be our better interests. From the story they had much more experience than us, so why not listen to someone older and wiser? Sometimes humans get so anxious to venture out that "damn" the results. Well, look in our past and see how often that got us into trouble. If I had the choice for us, I would say lets take it slow and steady. Eventually we will get to the same place; why not do it in a safe manner?

(I know, its only a story; but we do have this issue even today.)
I'd say your first outlook was more accurate. As the Vulcans that we knew from the 23rd century, they would offer they're guidance but vulcans as a whole don't have control issues. None that I remember attempted to dictate a course of actions while in a trust position. That's what made the vulcans in Enterprise very un trek like. Included against the ENT vulcans is the amount of emotion they displayed.

I think the vulcans I knew before ENT came on the air would have been indifferent as whatever course of action the humans chose. They would have planned measures to protect themselves from the very agenda oriented humans but I would say that would be the most. Look at it this way. The vulcans were mentally and technologicaly superior to the humans, if the threat of human agendas would have been easily corrected and in some cases forseen.
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Old 04-28-2008, 05:35 PM
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I think the Vulcans were holding us back because they were affraid of us (even as un Vulcan like as that may seem). You have to remember that at the time of First Contact we had just come out of our third world war. They saw us as being very unpredictable and very violent. If we acted this way towards our own race then how would we act towards aliens. It makes sense for them to think that we could throw the quadrent into chaos. They were unsure how we would do out in space.

However, I do believe they held us back to long. After a hundred years of interacting with and observing our species they should have realized that we weren't as reckless and violent as they thought.
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Old 04-28-2008, 05:58 PM
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I think the main reason is they were looking out for humanity's best interests, their own and any other potential allies. Humanity had to be tested a bit perhaps, to see if it were ready to function in the interstellar community. Humans were and always have been very unpredictable to Vulcans, I guess they just didn't want to outfit the earth ships and earth itself with technology that would rival Vulcan. Also I think a bit of the reason is that The High Command we see in Enterprise, we find out later was under Romulan influence at its highest levels. And a small group of Vulcans who were calling all the shots so to speak were working with the Romulans as revealed in that 3 parter in the last season, it's only after that did they go back to the teachings of Surak and eventually to become the Vulcans we know in TOS. Not all were of course under this Romulan movement for reunification but the ones calling the shots were and those like Savall I think just didn't trust humanity with the responsibility that came with such advancements were they just given to the human race by the Vulcans but I do think some of the reasons the Vulcans seemed so odd in Enterprise were explained to a degree in that 3 parter.
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Old 04-28-2008, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by KFoxed View Post
I think the Vulcans were holding us back because they were affraid of us (even as un Vulcan like as that may seem). You have to remember that at the time of First Contact we had just come out of our third world war. They saw us as being very unpredictable and very violent. If we acted this way towards our own race then how would we act towards aliens. It makes sense for them to think that we could throw the quadrent into chaos. They were unsure how we would do out in space.
That's generally how I see it. The Vulcans had been monitoring Earth for a long time. They knew of our various wars and how we nearly destroyed ourselves in World War III. The moment Cochrane developed his little warp engine, that made the Vulcans both curious and somewhat alarmed. A current day analogy might be that of a third-world power suddenly developing nuclear technology--what will they do with that technology?

In some ways, the Vulcans were justified in their policy of holding Humans back for a century. Onscreen evidence seems to point that the Vulcans developed warp drive no later than 320-370 A.D., and for post-World War III Humans to suddenly come out of nowhere in 2063 A.D. and claim they're ready to join the larger galactic community after nearly destroying themselves only ten years earlier? No way, junior. You're not ready yet...

Despite the claims of Jonathan Archer, I don't think Humans were ready until 2151, but the Vulcans were still right to have their reservations about Earth becoming a galactic power. What had taken them nearly two thousand years to achieve, the Humans were able to accomplish in less than a hundred...
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by KFoxed View Post
I think the Vulcans were holding us back because they were affraid of us (even as un Vulcan like as that may seem). You have to remember that at the time of First Contact we had just come out of our third world war. They saw us as being very unpredictable and very violent. If we acted this way towards our own race then how would we act towards aliens. It makes sense for them to think that we could throw the quadrent into chaos. They were unsure how we would do out in space.
Soval basically said as much during Season 4... the similarities, in particular, between Humans and Vulcans coupled with the rate at which we seemed determined to progress made many of them frightened of us; and if not, then wary at least. Apparently, it took them a century to break the Warp 5 barrier (I'm assuming, from Warp 2; since the majority Earth engines we saw or heard about in ENT seem to have been classed either as Warp 2 or Warp 5). Despite their holding humans back, it still didn't take us nearly that long to actually develop the engine.

And it took them centuries, or Millenia, to recover from their own violent period of history and go into space. Humans, quite literally, branched out into space almost immediately after our final World War. A century after that, we'd broken Warp 5; no doubt all that unnerved them.

Last edited by TM2-Megatron : 04-29-2008 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:26 AM
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Soval basically said is much during Season 4... the similarities, in particular, between Humans and Vulcans coupled with the rate at which we seemed determined to progress made many of them frightened of us; and if not, then wary at least. Apparently, it took them a century to break the Warp 5 barrier (I'm assuming, from Warp 2; since the majority Earth engines we saw or heard about in ENT seem to have been classed either as Warp 2 or Warp 5).

And it took them centuries, or Millenia, to recover from their own violent period of history and go into space. Humans, quite literally, branched out into space almost immediately after our final World War. A century after that, we'd broken Warp 5; no doubt all that unnerved them.
Nicely stated!
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Old 04-30-2008, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KFoxed View Post
I think the Vulcans were holding us back because they were affraid of us (even as un Vulcan like as that may seem). You have to remember that at the time of First Contact we had just come out of our third world war. They saw us as being very unpredictable and very violent. If we acted this way towards our own race then how would we act towards aliens. It makes sense for them to think that we could throw the quadrent into chaos. They were unsure how we would do out in space.

However, I do believe they held us back to long. After a hundred years of interacting with and observing our species they should have realized that we weren't as reckless and violent as they thought.
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That's generally how I see it. The Vulcans had been monitoring Earth for a long time. They knew of our various wars and how we nearly destroyed ourselves in World War III. The moment Cochrane developed his little warp engine, that made the Vulcans both curious and somewhat alarmed. A current day analogy might be that of a third-world power suddenly developing nuclear technology--what will they do with that technology?

In some ways, the Vulcans were justified in their policy of holding Humans back for a century. Onscreen evidence seems to point that the Vulcans developed warp drive no later than 320-370 A.D., and for post-World War III Humans to suddenly come out of nowhere in 2063 A.D. and claim they're ready to join the larger galactic community after nearly destroying themselves only ten years earlier? No way, junior. You're not ready yet...

Despite the claims of Jonathan Archer, I don't think Humans were ready until 2151, but the Vulcans were still right to have their reservations about Earth becoming a galactic power. What had taken them nearly two thousand years to achieve, the Humans were able to accomplish in less than a hundred...
I don't know about that gentleman. The logical course of action would seem "not to aid" them not go so far as too well equip them so as to be a threat. Enterprise made this a far to complex issue and didn't do well at answering the question. Conspiracies can only explain so many things and certain behaviors but some things like fear...are straight forward.

You don't help who you're afraid of. (Not typically)
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