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  #11  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:09 PM
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Well, where do I start? I am a supporter of BOTH intelligent design and Evolution. I believe the evidence shown in fossil records is too great to simply deny evolution. Yes, Evolution may not be able to fully answer all the questions regarding our origin's, but that is also not a reason to just toss it out as trash.

I posted this on the Physics thread and think it is fitting to add here: I do not see science and religion (or spirituality in my case) as opposing forces. I see science as the way we learn more about God. I have always told people that feel the theory of evolution is pure crap this little example: If I were to make a pot out of clay. I would start with a clump with no form. I would then spin my table thing (like in 'Ghost') and use my hands to form the clay. Now imagine a photographer were there snapping pictures every second or two. By the time I complete the pot there would be numerous photographs depicting a slightly different form. By believing the theory of evolution to be true, I am not denying God was the "potter" who's hands were at work.

I am also a believer in intelligent design because there are things about our natural world that are so beautiful and complex that I believe we can "see" God in them. For all the answers science has given us it has also uncovered more questions. There is plenty of mystery and inexplicable truth to point toward Intelligent design. Darwin himself said that his theory of evolution would fall apart if there were ever a system (I think he was reffering to organs) so complex that it would fail to function if just one part of it were missing, that his theory would fall apart. I don't think such a find means the theory of evolution does not point to truth as well. We have already found biological sytems that, by Darwin's definition, would be unexplainable by evoltion.

So how does a person choose which to believe. I don't believe it is a choice one must make. I believe they coexist nicely.
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Old 04-24-2008, 04:14 PM
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There are many Trek fans that have similar appreciation for both.
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  #13  
Old 04-24-2008, 04:34 PM
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Good point: in many ways, such a question presents a false choice.

In a more light-hearted way, I look at it this way: if God created everything, then God created evolution as well. Personally I'd find that a much more intriguing miracle. Talk about intelligent design...
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  #14  
Old 04-24-2008, 05:13 PM
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As a Christain for most of my adult life I believe in my heart God created man & Earth. As most intellectual people believe in evolution, they want facts with me its a matter of faith. I beleive the Bible is the word of God. But, more I think about it the scientist have faith in their beliefs. That earth just HAPPEN to form, then life just HAPPEN to start in our oceans, then just HAPPEN to start to walk, then just HAPPEN to in to apes, Then just HAPPEN to evolve into man. To me that takes ALOT of faith to believe than that God created it all.

Just my .02 worth.
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  #15  
Old 04-24-2008, 05:40 PM
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NCC asked for the American perspective. I'm just one of the others(first generation born, Chinese-American with non-Christian parents). Why is intelligent design even allowed to be taught in some public schools? Every culture has their own creation of the world story... who's to say who's the most valid? My mom has a strong belief in Buddhism and yet she adopts science facts easily. I had a great friend out casted by her Christian classmates for her Buddhist beliefs in high school. No biggie for me... I'll cut the frog during biology. Isn't there separation of church and state anyways? Why does one belief have to influence the education of those who never grew up Christian???

Might doesn't make right.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../print/xx.html
Christians are only 33% of the world population.... what about the rest of the population?

What does the rest of the world teach in their science classes? What is their stance on religion and government and education? What does the slide in skilled workers in America to fill the vacant tech/sci/medical positions mean? The first generation, second generation immigrants(from all over the world) are filling those gaps. What does it say about this country?
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Last edited by Ditroi : 04-24-2008 at 06:01 PM.
  #16  
Old 04-24-2008, 06:40 PM
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Its hard enough for students to learn the nuts and bolts of biology without adding on a religous perspective to confuse them. Ready for your SAT2 in Biology? How about AP biology? One of my students lugs around a $100 dense brick(the photos are gorgeous btw) of a textbook. Does she have to know Christian beliefs to get into good colleges to study medicine?
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Last edited by Ditroi : 04-24-2008 at 06:44 PM.
  #17  
Old 04-24-2008, 08:41 PM
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Coming in late...first, evolution theory does not say we evolved from apes. Everyone go back 3 steps and try again. Evolution theroy says we evolved from the same line that apes evolved from....think of it like a road..you start on Main Street...it splits off to be First and Second Streets.... Second Street splits off to be A and B Streets, First Street splits off to be Blue and Red Streets... Red Street did not evolve from B Street. Both Red Street and B Street evolved from MAIN Street which is nothing like either B Street or Red Street.

Creationism has been outlawed in public schools because about 80 years ago the courts decided that the scientific evidence made evolution the logical thing to teach as science.

"Intelligent Design" is a relatively new concept developed by a think tank composed of advertisers who wanted to find a way to sneak "Creationism" past the umpire and get it taught as "Science" because it was couched in scientific terms.

In some communities it has worked, largely because those who support it were encouraged to run for positions on local school boards and, having presented themselves as loving, caring parents the rest of the community was stunned to find out they also meant to trash science in schools.

As noted elsewhere, Lisa Simpson said it best when she told Ned Flanders "I don't want religion taught in my science class, just as you don't want science taught in your church."

There is room for both, but in public education science is taught as science. Religion should be addressed (in my opinon) but it should be addressed in classes clearly labelled as "religion".
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Old 04-24-2008, 10:32 PM
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Look. First of all, i'm a sane person. I work for a living, i eat food, i use the bathroom, i drive a car, i vote, i worry about bills and where my next meal is coming from and how i'm going to pay my taxes. I don't purposely harm other human beings, i don't commit crimes, I have lied but i don't make it a habit because i suck at it. I'm a relatively (and i stress the word relatively!) normal human being. That having been said, this is what i need to tell you. I believe that God exists. In fact, i know that God exists. He isn't a fantasy nor a fallacy, nor a myth. He is a real person/persons perhaps, i really don't know all of the details, and i don't think it's my job as a flawed human being to know all the details. But i've heard God's voice, i've felt His presence, and i've been the recipient of His mercy, love and power when i was in dire straits. I have felt his hands on me when i had no strength in my own. I love Him. He is a really great God. I don't believe He has any gender, because He isn't a human, He's Almighty righteous God, creator and ruler of all that is and He IS in charge of this Universe. I have a brain, it's the one that He assigned to me, and it works well enough to keep me moving forward through life's trials and tribulations. When i talk to Athiests about Him, they always say the same thing first, and that is: If God created Man, then who created God. They cannot seem to grasp the fact that nobody created God, God was not created. God, in fact, did all of the creating. God is not subject to time and space, and all of the other variables that we are subject to, because God created time and space, and all of the other variables that we are subject to. These things are controlled by God and not vice versa. God is way ahead of us. So far ahead of us that we can never catch up. God is so very intelligent and wise that if all of our collective brains and those of all of the animals, insects and other life forms in the universe were collected and combined in one place, they would still not equal the power of God's. Some of us humans are very intelligent when compared to other humans. Some of these humans that are very intelligent, have an ego just like the rest of us have an ego. Some of these intelligent, egotistical humans have such an amazing ego, that they cannot concieve of an intelligence that could possibly be greater than their own. Nevertheless, that intelligence does exist and is completely without ego because it needs none to know that it is greater. It simply IS greater. I am a human being, as i've previously stated and i have flaws and faults. My particular flaws and faults would not have allowed me to survive certain situations that have occurred in my life without divine guidance and intervention. Fortunately for me, when divine guidance and intervention were called for, they were available because God is real and cares whether i continue to survive. I know this, it isn't a theory to me anymore, it isn't something i doubt anymore, because i have seen it work, heard it work and experienced it work in my life. For those of you who still have doubts about it, i suggest the following. Go out to someplace very quiet and private where you are certain you are alone, look up into the marvelously beautiful heavens above you, and ask God to show you that He is real. Be open minded and be serious, and mean what you ask with all of your heart, and see if He doesn't answer in some way. It may be small, it may seem insignificant to you, but if you're looking with the right heart, you'll find what it is that you seek. May God bless you, keep you and guide you. He has done so for this particular fellow. I have no idea how God created the universe, i have no idea what process brought us humans about. But ultimately i am faced with the fact that it did, and that we are hard-wired to wonder why, and to seek the answer to that question. That enough ought to give you some reason not to narrow mindedly dismiss the idea that a creator could exist. That's about all i've got to say. Because nothing i say is going to convince you. It's only your own heart that can do that.

Last edited by Berengarius7 : 04-24-2008 at 10:42 PM. Reason: I misspelled a word, because i have the aforementioned flaws. :)
  #19  
Old 04-24-2008, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post

I understand that in the US, the so called "creation science" and concepts like "intelligent design" are quite popular. Why is that? The facts support only one scientific theory, which is evolution.

I'm sorry, but this comment reflects a foundational misunderstanding of science. The facts don't say anything other than what the results are, and mean nothing without an interpretation. (In this discussion I am leaving aside that not all facts published stand up to scrutiny. Often Bible-denying 'facts' are loudly proclaimed in newspapers, only to be very quietly retracted a few months later as being faulty. I am only speaking about verifiable, reliable facts.)

When a scientist publishes, s/he produces both facts and an interpretation of the facts. However, we live in a world were most scientists have an a priori pre-commitment to materialistic, humanistic evolution and therefore interpret the facts according to their beliefs. A creation scientist (and there are many) will take the same facts and interpret them according to his beliefs. For example, an evolutionist might look at the Grand Canyon and say, "A little water and a long time caused this to happen", while a creationist would look at it and say, "A lot of water and a little time caused this to happen."

This leads to an obvious conclusion that both creationists and evolutionists are proceeding from a belief system, which is true. The difference is that Creationists freely admit to this being the case, while humanistic evolutionists maintain a myth that they have no agenda and that an honest investigation into the facts has caused them to arrive at naturalistic evolution. However, the reality is that there is no verifiable fact in science that contradicts the biblical account of existence, and a creationist feels no obligation to jump on the humanist's bandwagon and say that the Bible is untrue.

Creationists are not seeking to have evolution banned from being taught in schools; they want the teaching that evolution has been proved as a fact and that it is the only scientific way of interpreting the facts, to be replaced with the truth that evolution hasn't been proved as a fact and that there are other ways of interpreting scientific facts.

Therefore a person wanting to believe the Bible has no need to compromise his/her beliefs to accommodate the humanistic evolutionary agenda. Articles can be read at http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/21/65 .
  #20  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:50 PM
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I support the theory of evolution for one big reason... And that is that I cannot believe that many of the people in high places in this country today constitute a "Finished Product"
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