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Old 04-24-2008, 12:04 PM
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First of all: no flaming and no trolls, please.

I understand that in the US, the so called "creation science" and concepts like "intelligent design" are quite popular. Why is that? The facts support only one scientific theory, which is evolution.

I want a serious discussion without rude words here, so please stay logical and suppress your emotions for a while
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:14 PM
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Anyone remember "Raiders of the Lost Ark" When Indy tells his students that archaeology is about FACTS not TRUTH?

Science is about explaining "HOW" Religion and Faith are about "WHY"
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:20 PM
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excellent point with the how and why...
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:22 PM
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NCC, "intelligent design" has become somewhat popular lately, but mostly among religious groups touting it. Basically, it's an adaptation of the same idea to avoid calling it "Creationism" in the discussions.

On the other hand, a recent 'documentary' by Ben Stein is catching tons of critical flack here for presenting a totally biased and un-factual case for intelligent design. In effect, to show the extremes his argument goes to, he blames the Nazi holocaust on Darwin's theory of evolution which is a gross (in both senses of the word) warping of both 20th century political and scientific history.

To answer your question: I don't know that this new name for an existing theory is any more popular than it was under the old handle, it's just getting a lot of press lately as a political and social weapon in the ongoing debate. Not surprising in an election year, really.
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:45 PM
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ok! I've thought about it a lot... I think it has to do with the sheer size and the religious roots of this country. Religious people hang on to their beliefs fiercely. It doesn't help that this country treats the education system like cr**.

The math and sciences are not pushed as hard in this country vs. the rest of the world. We have big cities with tech/sci jobs and major research driven Universities to fill them. But as a whole these are just small clusters compared to the size and density of people in this country.

Science vs. God, Faith vs. Logical reasoning. I have a smart friend. A bio-mech-engineer... but she really doesn't believe that we evolved from apes... she doesn't like that thought. That suggests to me such people look down on animals. Even though they love their dogs and cats, the think of them as lesser beings. Beings given for the use of humans?? She had studied genetic sciences and did lab research pertaining to it... that's probably why she switched to bio-mechanical engineering later. I think she is afraid to face the truth. The religious people are not able to accept that the basis of their religion is a bunch of oral stories collected long after the supposed events. They don't like the idea that perhaps there is no heaven or hell...I don't know. They refuse to accept the uncertainty that their is no big reward or punishment at the end of it all so they snubb the sciences all together and write it the way they want it to be, and made themselves believe it.

It frustrates me because it doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't have to be a battle. I consider myself spiritually connected to a something... life has been good to me...do I thank the universe? my ancestors(chinese), Buddha? Jesus?? Is it so hard to believe that science and god are maybe the same thing??? Basically be respectful to all living things because you just never really know until the end.
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Old 04-24-2008, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC-73515 View Post
First of all: no flaming and no trolls, please.

I understand that in the US, the so called "creation science" and concepts like "intelligent design" are quite popular. Why is that? The facts support only one scientific theory, which is evolution.

I want a serious discussion without rude words here, so please stay logical and suppress your emotions for a while
Just as in a court battle the defense and the prosecution may share the same evidence such frequently the same with scientific theories of all kinds. Intelligent Design and evolution draw from the world around us in order to best explain how it got here. Neither one inherits the evidence as strictly owned.

It is the nature of discovery to offer different ideas on why and how things work the way they do. It's the Society of Science that decides on one particular format.
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Old 04-24-2008, 01:04 PM
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It doesn't help that pop culture in the US has for a long time categorized those with the enthusiasm to learn as "nerds" and 'geeks". In Asian culture's it is not frowned upon... we are clustered in areas like Seattle, San Fransisco and LA. My sister is working on her Aerospace PHD in Indiana... her picture made it into the local papers when Neil Armstrong and other astronauts came to a dedication of a new engineering building at Purdue. The only non-white girl in a huge crowd. Not hard to pick her out.
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Old 04-24-2008, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ditroi View Post



Science vs. God, Faith vs. Logical reasoning. I have a smart friend. A bio-mech-engineer... but she really doesn't believe that we evolved from apes... she doesn't like that thought. That suggests to me such people look down on animals. Even though they love their dogs and cats, the think of them as lesser beings. Beings given for the use of humans?? She had studied genetic sciences and did lab research pertaining to it... that's probably why she switched to bio-mechanical engineering later. I think she is afraid to face the truth. The religious people are not able to accept that the basis of their religion is a bunch of oral stories collected long after the supposed events. They don't like the idea that perhaps there is no heaven or hell...I don't know. They refuse to accept the uncertainty that their is no big reward or punishment at the end of it all so they snubb the sciences all together and write it the way they want it to be, and made themselves believe it.

It frustrates me because it doesn't have to be this way. It doesn't have to be a battle. I consider myself spiritually connected to a something... life has been good to me...do I thank the universe? my ancestors(chinese), Buddha? Jesus?? Is it so hard to believe that science and god are maybe the same thing??? Basically be respectful to all living things because you just never really know until the end.

The Society Science does not like melding of it's theories to the idea of God. There are many scientist that have melded their understanding of God with scientific theory. But it is urged that those "personal" perspectives are kept out of scientific work. It's poorly viewed when anything God related is substantiated in jorunals or by suggestion.

Personally think there is more in common then the more strict scientists like Richard Dawkins would like to admit. Yet neither would I say that the Christian religion allows for evolution to be a method from which God created life on Earth, yet they're are many other direct observations that science provides that hold up under biblical scrutiny. The relationship is incredible and fascinating. Hopefully new information will continue to give us a preview of things as they occured in the past.
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Old 04-24-2008, 01:21 PM
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I'm not saying religious views be injected in scientific work. I'm saying on the everyday, for those who are religious to let science enrich what they have. The Christians don't see the connection to the animal ancestors so they don't understand why our bodies look the way they do and function the way they do. Human behavior is animal behavior... it's not the devil's doing... People in general should step back and look and decide what makes us human and what is it to step outside our animal programming and make the world a better place.
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Old 04-24-2008, 01:40 PM
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Well Christians are primarily governed by Biblical standards. ( or at least they're supposed to)

The bible says specificly between animals and man.
"Their eventuality is the same." (meaning death.
They relate them as both souls.

Yet at the same time offering an understanding the man will place them into subjection and assigning superiority to man.

There are alot of difference between man and animal. Science has explored it throughly but not by any means completely. Our behavior has similarities and yet stark differences. Our organic structure is almost synonymous yet not interchangable...

Christians are a fickled group consisting of many ideas. Some beilieve this and others believe that and there is no particular rhyme or reason to many things except tradition. It's a strong influence and new ideas don't penetrate tradition very easily, sometimes taking hundreds of years.
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