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  #21  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:13 PM
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Ever see the movie "Ed Wood" Where they are filming a sequence where the henchman hits his head on the doorway and the director's assistant calls for a retake? Ed Wood tells him no because of course this poor guy would be doing this all the time so it made sense to leave it like that.

From a reality perspective Ed is right... But from the perspective of his story it made what was supposed to be a serious scene funny.

Things never just happen to be in a movie... If you see the camera catch a rifle over the fireplace in a mystery, it means something. Likewise siblings should only show up if there is a good reason (IE A good story line.)

I Do not say you are at all wrong... In fact I say that your points are well taken and quite right!

However I add that it is a question of balance.... "How do we allow the excellent writer freedom to create while trying to avoid a flood of bad writers running amok using the same arguments?"
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  #22  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:27 PM
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No...though, I've seen Plan 9 From Outer Space many times.

I thought that the story line for Final Frontier was good. I like the movie, I think it lacks good effects but is otherwise up there in my favorite things to watch when I want to be entertained.

As noted, I think Ms. Fontana's view was narrow. I think she failed to consider the consequences of Pon Farr (she didn't write the one show that addressed it and in the system in place at the time, it was often the case that many of the season's stories were locked in before production began on the first show)

We do know about Pon Farr now, so our understanding is different than hers.

I guess we have to hope that those who get the job of writing the Star Trek movies and shows are good. However, I don't know what recourse we as fans have if they don't, other than not buying into the show/movie (which has happened).

I guess I don't see that we have the right to "allow" anything.
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  #23  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:46 PM
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Yes.. on reflection "Allow" is a poor choice of words. Maybe "Encourage" is more fitting.
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  #24  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:53 PM
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Yes, that works better for me...frankly the ardent fan who is decrying a change in his/her universe by saying "I cannot allow that" is a loser. We, as fans, don't have much power. So we, as fans, should recognize that and also recognixe that the "questioner" who does so within the system is more likely to get his/her questions answered than the one who just complains.
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  #25  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:58 PM
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Since the new movie is starting from scratch, Canon does not play a roll.

However, the writers and director have all said that they will "respect" the canon of Star Trek. The means they will more than likely keep all the major points in tact, but other than that, it's a new fresh start. Anything can happen.
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  #26  
Old 04-24-2008, 10:13 PM
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BWAP!!!

No...since the new movie is a reboot of the original, canon is just about everything. I cannot disagree more with the idea that canon "does not play a role" ...if they made impossible to get from this movie to the original series, it would be a disaster.
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:23 AM
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I see what you are saying, but a Reboot, or Re imaging as they are calling it, does not have to match up to the past 40 years.

Look at 2006 release of Batman, it did not match up with the 80's film Batman, which did not sync up with the 60's series or movie. And this is because it was a reboot. HOWEVER!!! The basics of the characters, and backgrounds stayed the same.

This is what I think the new Trek movie will do.
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  #28  
Old 04-25-2008, 12:40 AM
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I'm not a canon-Nazi, so if there are minor changes, I'm not going to freak.

Even for "canon violations" we also have to remember that there weren't VCR's or DVD's or anything like that in the 60's. So if you missed the show, you had to wait till the rerum was on. And you likely wouldn't remember the minutia from episode to episode anyway. (example: is it General Order 7 or General Order 4?)

But nums brings up an interesting point that I wish to perhaps draw out a little bit more: Let's say that this reboot/reimagining really is that, and it leads to a remake of the Star Trek television series, and perhaps later on, a remake of TNG. Would any violation of canon be a violation of canon, if it going to establish its own canon?
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  #29  
Old 04-25-2008, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregon_Coast_Trekkie View Post
I'm not a canon-Nazi, so if there are minor changes, I'm not going to freak.

Even for "canon violations" we also have to remember that there weren't VCR's or DVD's or anything like that in the 60's. So if you missed the show, you had to wait till the rerum was on. And you likely wouldn't remember the minutia from episode to episode anyway. (example: is it General Order 7 or General Order 4?)

But nums brings up an interesting point that I wish to perhaps draw out a little bit more: Let's say that this reboot/reimagining really is that, and it leads to a remake of the Star Trek television series, and perhaps later on, a remake of TNG. Would any violation of canon be a violation of canon, if it going to establish its own canon?
LOL "canon-Nazi", love that one!

I understand what you are saying. But I want to see the "traditions" respected. I don't want to see Spock cry eveytime the encounter a new sepcies, or Klingons being hippes. Ok, that's kinda extreme, but you get the idea.

Like you said, if every tiny peice of info isn't 100% followed, who cares?

A reboot/revisioning to me would not be a violation, but a continuation.

I belive TOS was chosen for this movie becasue it is so universally known, to even non fans. It had the best chance of getting a broad audience into theatres, of all the Treks.
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  #30  
Old 04-25-2008, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizadolots View Post
See? That's why taking something that has not been filmed as "canon" is not a good idea because it's just one more thing to reign in the writers. The freer a writer feels, the better he/she will write. Good writers can do wonderful things with those "untouched" elements of the Star Trek Universe but when too rabid fans froth at the mouth over things like what ship designs were used what year, it's a slam at those writers, it's locking them down when they should not be locked down.
Interesting point...it would be cool to hear from a writer on this subject...I bet they'd have a pretty strong opinion!

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elizadolots View Post
I agree...but don't we all know people who are right now advance shopping little flashlights so they can bring their blueprints of the early ships with them into the opening of the new movie? And don't we know that those people are going to go all stinky when the button on the command chair to give a shipwide allert is 2 inches to the left of where it was in TOS and the weird blue tooth earpiece Uhura (and sometimes Spock) wears to commune with the computers doesn't have the correct number of "rings"?
LOL. I hope those people don't sit by me in the theater....

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yagami Crewman View Post
The very reason DC Fontana made that statement that Spock was an only child was to avoid a plethora of stories where as she put it "Half a Spockian horde of brothers, sisters, half brothers, and half sisters showed up." She also thought the 'only child' angle heightened the significance of the rift between Spock and his father. So from her point of view I see the equally valid point that weak writers would try to use the idea as a crutch for a story that didn't hold up well on its own.
Just a quick question: Where did DC Fontana write this? I don't remember it from an episode...
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