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Old 04-19-2008, 02:50 PM
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MrQ1701 MrQ1701 is offline
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Default Guns!!

I just saw an interesting news piece on CNN about this. I have a gut feeling what many of you will say, but I must find out!

Gun Control and Gun laws. What are your thoughts and feeling on this subject?

I will give you some background information and express my own feeling first so as everyone can go from there.

I am an Operation Iraqi Freedom combat veteran. I currently work in security. I carry a Glock 22 at all times and I also have ready access to an M-4 rifle at work (I do not carry when I am not at work, not yet). I own a Glock 17, a shotgun, a hunting rifle, and a little .22 that is good for shooting cans. My wife has a 30-30 lever action that she can shoot like she were Annie Oakley!

I am FOR concealed carry. I believe ANY law abiding citizen should be able to carry concealed with proper training and documentation. I think the system for backfround checks MUST include mental health information for those being treated for suicidal or possibly homicidal tendancies, which is not the case now.

The assault weapons ban. I am glad it expired. If I want to own an M-4 with a 30 round magazine I should be able to. I will not try to BS anyone and say I shoot ducks or squirrels with it. I would target practice with it and, if need be, defend my family with it. If an armed group of thieves broke into my house in the middle of the night they would ALL leave in bodybags. An M-4 is a great tool for killing people. Doesn't mean I will commit a drive-by or a bank heist with it.

I am sure I will think of more aspects to this subject later.
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Old 04-19-2008, 04:20 PM
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kenj1986 kenj1986 is offline
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I've gotta say I agree with you 95%...

If people aren't allowed o have weapons, then the ONLY people with them will be criminals. Decent, law-abiding people will have no way to defend themselves at all.

The only disagreement I have is this:

How on earth would you defend your family with am M-4 in the middle of the night? Do you keep it in your bed with you? It seems it would be better to use a short-barrel shotgun (doesn't need to be aimed very precisely) or a pistol (easier to use in confined areas).

But that's not really an ideological difference. While I question the practicality of owning an assault weapon, I would never try to suggest your constitutional right to own and defend yourself with one should be infringed.

I don't own a gun, so I hope nobody calls me a crazy right-wing nut job. I don't really want a gun. I can't afford one, I don't know how to shoot one, and I really don't know where to go to learn. That doesn't mean I'm without weapons, I just don't do firearms.

The Constitution of the United States is very clear:
Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
I believe that means that it is citizens' voluntary responsibility to own and bear weapons to defend themselves, their families, and their nation. States may, however, interpret this and disallow certain types of weapons, because the states have the right to regulate their militias (citizens who own weapons), but the federal government is not permitted to tell the states how to regulate their militias.
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Last edited by kenj1986 : 04-19-2008 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 04-19-2008, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenj1986 View Post
I've gotta say I agree with you 95%...

If people aren't allowed o have weapons, then the ONLY people with them will be criminals. Decent, law-abiding people will have no way to defend themselves at all.

The only disagreement I have is this:

How on earth would you defend your family with am M-4 in the middle of the night? Do you keep it in your bed with you? It seems it would be better to use a short-barrel shotgun (doesn't need to be aimed very precisely) or a pistol (easier to use in confined areas).

But that's not really an ideological difference. While I question the practicality of owning an assault weapon, I would never try to suggest your constitutional right to own and defend yourself with one should be infringed.

I don't own a gun, so I hope nobody calls me a crazy right-wing nut job. I don't really want a gun. I can't afford one, I don't know how to shoot one, and I really don't know where to go to learn. That doesn't mean I'm without weapons, I just don't do firearms.

The Constitution of the United States is very clear:
I believe that means that it is citizens' voluntary responsibility to own and bear weapons to defend themselves, their families, and their nation. States may, however, interpret this and disallow certain types of weapons, because the states have the right to regulate their militias (citizens who own weapons), but the federal government is not permitted to tell the states how to regulate their militias.
Ok. I suppose my M-4 defense for the house example was a bit off, although I do have the tactical training to make it happen. I do not own an M-4. I would like one, but I don't have one. I actually have my Glock 17 kept handy at a half load (full magazine but no round in the chamber). I also keep a tactical surefire handy. I want a weapon light for the Glock to make things a whole lot easier. I have an adobe home so my walls are very thick and can stop pretty much anything a person can shoot and remain standing, so I am not afraid of over penetration and hurting someone I am not aiming at, but Yes, shotguns are what I would normally recommend for home defense. My wife prefers the Glock, so we use the Glock. I also work the grave yard shift and am not the one most likely to use the Glock for a home invasion, my wife is. I have her well trained up.
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Old 04-19-2008, 04:42 PM
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I must add that my wife and I do not have children!! This is imprtant because i would not keep my Glock at a half load sitting unsecured if I did. No matter how much you teach children to respect weapons, they will be children. If I had children I would invest in one of those handy gun safes with the hand-thingy-majiger for access.
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Old 04-19-2008, 06:58 PM
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My main beef with the NRA is that they stand in the way of some basic safety measures. No one is ever going to take all the guns out of American society (unless things get wayyyyy messed up), so why can't the NRA just let some certain steps be taken? How about a 7 day waiting period with a full background check, limits on ammo types and certain gun types, etc. (Be honest - a fully automatic rifle is fun to fire, but who really needs one?) I was a member of the NRA for a few years, but left when they got too rigid.

I've been trying to talk the hubby into a shotgun for 3 years now!
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Old 04-19-2008, 07:08 PM
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I mostly agree with you MrQ. I think it is a fundamental right, it's written explicitly in the Constitution and to hear people try to twist it and say it only refers to militia is flatly wrong, it refers to individuals.

The thing is it is too easy to get a gun, I think they certainly need background checks, including mental health of course, and I believe there should be an extensive test for anyone who wishes to buy a fire arm. You have one for obtaining a driver's license. I just don't think you should be able to go into a store, lay down a driver's license and the money and walk out with a gun.

The issue with M-16's, military issue weapons, I'm a little more wary there but it's covered by the Constitution. These weapons are designed for one purpose, to kill people, all guns of course are, but machine guns, military issue weapons, they're designed for warfare but many people collect them, many like to fire them, it's their choice, but I think when purchasing a gun such as that there certainly needs to be a very extensive test and background check.

As you can probably tell from my gun descriptions I don't know that much about guns and was never that interested in owning one, but I do think it is a fundamental right that should not be challenged, the government should not have the power to tell us whether or not we can arm ourselves.
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Old 04-19-2008, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerhanner View Post
My main beef with the NRA is that they stand in the way of some basic safety measures. No one is ever going to take all the guns out of American society (unless things get wayyyyy messed up), so why can't the NRA just let some certain steps be taken? How about a 7 day waiting period with a full background check, limits on ammo types and certain gun types, etc. (Be honest - a fully automatic rifle is fun to fire, but who really needs one?) I was a member of the NRA for a few years, but left when they got too rigid.

I've been trying to talk the hubby into a shotgun for 3 years now!
I go along with much of what Jer says. I think gun control would be a much more reasonable issue to handle and legislate if the NRA and supporters would not treat every attempt at increasing safety measures, background checks and such as a full-frontal assault on their basic human rights.

Also, I've never quite understood the somewhat paranoid scenario which always crops up in such discussions -- if an armed group attacks my house, I want all the firepower I can to defend my family. Um, how often do roving gangs of armed thieves launch a military assault on a family dwelling in this country? Seriously. Were we invaded by Mongols anytime recently that I missed? No gun owner should need an AK-47 or M-4 to defend their home against say an armed burglar, which is a much more common uncommon scenario for home defense.

With any topic, extreme viewpoints (on either end of the spectrum) are counterproductive and weaken any valid argument to be made.

I won't go into the idea of how setting up for militias in the late 1700s bears no relation to what many extremist gun owners consider their Constitutional rights today.

MrQ, I certainly appreciate your more moderate stance including better gun safety and registration standards (why any gun owner or NRA supporter wouldn't back such things is beyond me), and I definitely salute you for delineating how you would modify your current situation if you had children in the house. Would that all gun owners were so responsible!
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Old 04-19-2008, 09:33 PM
Berengarius7 Berengarius7 is offline
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As long as i can keep my old Winchester and my Wyatt Earp six-shooter, i'm happy. But without them, i wouldn't want to wake up in the morning. I'd be a total useless zombie of a person. My dogs and my guns are my life. I don't want to harm anyone, i never want to harm anyone, I've never harmed anyone with a gun or anything else. If it were a choice between life or death, if someone broke in my house to kill me or hurt my Mom or my Aunt, i would send them to hell to spark on the devil's behind quicker than a blink. But not for any other reason. I love to target shoot, I love trick shooting. I think it's a God given right for a person to be able to defend their own life. It sucks that we have to have criminals and people who want to harm other people for no good reason, but we do, and as long as we do, we must keep our sword sharp and bright. And that, is my opinion. Thanks for the indulgence.

Edit: Change the third sentence to "My dogs and my guns and Star Trek and the hope that mankind will someday make it to the stars." I just forgot those other two things for a minute, sorry.

Last edited by Berengarius7 : 04-19-2008 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 04-20-2008, 04:46 AM
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Strange mentalities...
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Old 04-20-2008, 05:42 AM
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Judges and libs can read all kinds of things into the Constitution that just aren't there. They tell us that this is what the founders 'meant'.

The one thing that is spelled out pretty damn clear, the 2nd Amendment, the libs aren't too sure of. The founders 'didn't mean' that!
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