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  #11  
Old 04-01-2008, 03:08 PM
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Lol!
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2008, 04:58 AM
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Yeah, but remember Kirk had been Captain far longer than Harriman.
Right. Kirk had the authority to demand to go, because of senority, if nothing else.
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Old 04-02-2008, 07:57 AM
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It's like getting back with a girlfriend only to get heartbreak in the end (god forbid). They don't want the same sadness to happen again, but once they are back in, they feel happy again, only to be dissapointed in the end. For example, Kirk felt bad about losing the Enterprise-A in 2293, and swore never to set foot on a starship again. Yet, later that year he was talked into being a guest of honour on the Enterprise-B, and again, felt that same sadness on the bridge. Then, he felt useful by involving himself in the deflector control room, and I'm guessing he didn't run back up to the bridge because it would bring back that same sadness that he wasn't the one in charge and that it wasn't the place for him.

*But at least he got to sit in the captain's chair...for a few seconds anyway.
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Last edited by Quark : 04-02-2008 at 08:01 AM.
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  #14  
Old 04-02-2008, 08:19 AM
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Ok, look at it from a Starfleet/military stance. Kirk was the most expendable. Scotty was helping keep the ship in one peice. Chekov was helping with the refugees. the civilians couldn't do it, even if they could, Starfleet protcol would not allow a civilian to he harmed.

All the E-B's limited crew was working to keep the ship going.

So Kirk was the most expendable person.

Jim Kirk never saw himself as a "living legend" he was just a Capatin.
Well, let's look at that again.

First. Kirk, though not in command of the vessel, is the highest ranking person on board the ship.
Second. Harriman, having likely overseen part of the construction of the ship, probably would have known the ship systems better (I thought it was a bit preposterous that Kirk would know where and how to do what needed to be done on ship he had likely never even stepped foot on until that day).
Third. Kirk wasn't a crewmember, he was essentially an honored guest, a digniatary there for a ceremony.

Harriman should have gone. At worst, Scotty should have gone. Kirk having been a starship commander for more than 30 years at that point, probably wouldn't have known enough to do what needed to be done.
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2008, 09:11 AM
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Well, let's look at that again.

First. Kirk, though not in command of the vessel, is the highest ranking person on board the ship.
Second. Harriman, having likely overseen part of the construction of the ship, probably would have known the ship systems better (I thought it was a bit preposterous that Kirk would know where and how to do what needed to be done on ship he had likely never even stepped foot on until that day).
Third. Kirk wasn't a crewmember, he was essentially an honored guest, a digniatary there for a ceremony.

Harriman should have gone. At worst, Scotty should have gone. Kirk having been a starship commander for more than 30 years at that point, probably wouldn't have known enough to do what needed to be done.

Some good points. let's examine them.

First-As we know from countless TOS episodes, the senior officer on board can assume Command or do pretty much what they want without much grounds to go on.

Second-Kirk being the dilligent senior officer he is would know where basic item/room on any ship would be located. I cannot imagine deflector control is that far off location wise, than it was on his ship.
Besides I am sure he has kept abreast of the latest ship designs. While I am postive he was not as knowlegeable as Harriman on specifics of the ship, I am sure he can generally find his way to major areas. If he was unsure there was a MAP in the Turboilift, like on his ship.

Scotty couldn't have gone, he was too busy keeping the ship in one peice in the wave. I would assume for a photo op "milk run" as planned they did not being an Cheif Engineer, or have one yet.

I would assume reversing the polarity of the tractor/deflector beam is fairly easy. Looked that way. As we have seen in many Trek episodes, command people must have a general overveiw of ship operations. i would assume during tours of duty while on his way to becoming a Starship Captain, I would assume he did a tour in deflector control, as he owuld have all departments. Also a 30+ year realtionship with Scotty probably gave him pleant of basic working knowlege.

Harriman needed to be on the bridge to command the ship and to oversee whatever plan was implimented, not abandoning his post to save a senoir officer a trip to make a minor change when Kirk was just standing around anyway with no function.
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  #16  
Old 04-02-2008, 11:19 AM
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Yeah...that's sort of the ticket..."Hey, why not send you down since this ship is completely new to you....."
Exactly, he's been retired for years, and going on a Brand New Ship, 5 times larger than the ship he's served on for years, and the New ship comes in Danger and he gets sent down to fix the problem..... how is he suppost to find the control room anyway?
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2008, 11:36 AM
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Exactly, he's been retired for years, and going on a Brand New Ship, 5 times larger than the ship he's served on for years, and the New ship comes in Danger and he gets sent down to fix the problem..... how is he suppost to find the control room anyway?
Read my previous post for the answers.
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  #18  
Old 04-02-2008, 12:27 PM
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Some good points. let's examine them.

First-As we know from countless TOS episodes, the senior officer on board can assume Command or do pretty much what they want without much grounds to go on.
Exactly.

Quote:
Second-Kirk being the dilligent senior officer he is would know where basic item/room on any ship would be located. I cannot imagine deflector control is that far off location wise, than it was on his ship.
Besides I am sure he has kept abreast of the latest ship designs. While I am postive he was not as knowlegeable as Harriman on specifics of the ship, I am sure he can generally find his way to major areas. If he was unsure there was a MAP in the Turboilift, like on his ship.
But in an emergency situation, you would need to send someone who knows exactly where the equipment...not just the room...is. And I doubt Kirk would have knowledge that specific on this particular ship's design.

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Scotty couldn't have gone, he was too busy keeping the ship in one peice in the wave. I would assume for a photo op "milk run" as planned they did not being an Cheif Engineer, or have one yet.
What was Scotty doing to keep the ship together? pushing buttons? Anyone could have done that...

As for not having a chief engineer on board, I seriously doubt they would even do a milk run (which would involve use of the engines) without having an officer on board IN CHARGE of those engines. Having served in the Navy myself, I can say that no US Navy ship is leaving port without an engineering crew.

Quote:
I would assume reversing the polarity of the tractor/deflector beam is fairly easy. Looked that way. As we have seen in many Trek episodes, command people must have a general overveiw of ship operations. i would assume during tours of duty while on his way to becoming a Starship Captain, I would assume he did a tour in deflector control, as he owuld have all departments. Also a 30+ year realtionship with Scotty probably gave him pleant of basic working knowlege.
I wont argue with you on that point...but Scotty or Harriman both would have had better knowledge than Kirk would have at that point.

Quote:
Harriman needed to be on the bridge to command the ship and to oversee whatever plan was implimented, not abandoning his post to save a senoir officer a trip to make a minor change when Kirk was just standing around anyway with no function.
You're probably right about Harriman staying on his bridge. But Kirk wasn't the best option. If I had to choose between sending Harriman or Kirk, I would have sent Harriman because of his ship knowledge and left Kirk doing what he always had done best, in command of the ship for that moment.
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  #19  
Old 04-02-2008, 02:05 PM
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Exactly.

But in an emergency situation, you would need to send someone who knows exactly where the equipment...not just the room...is. And I doubt Kirk would have knowledge that specific on this particular ship's design.

What was Scotty doing to keep the ship together? pushing buttons? Anyone could have done that...

As for not having a chief engineer on board, I seriously doubt they would even do a milk run (which would involve use of the engines) without having an officer on board IN CHARGE of those engines. Having served in the Navy myself, I can say that no US Navy ship is leaving port without an engineering crew.

I wont argue with you on that point...but Scotty or Harriman both would have had better knowledge than Kirk would have at that point.

You're probably right about Harriman staying on his bridge. But Kirk wasn't the best option. If I had to choose between sending Harriman or Kirk, I would have sent Harriman because of his ship knowledge and left Kirk doing what he always had done best, in command of the ship for that moment.
I agree
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  #20  
Old 04-02-2008, 02:27 PM
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But in an emergency situation, you would need to send someone who knows exactly where the equipment...not just the room...is. And I doubt Kirk would have knowledge that specific on this particular ship's design.
Yes, in optimal conditions, yes. They were dumb enough to leave with less than a skeleton crew, without major systems working, even on this "milk run."

Watch those scenes again. I would assume Starfleet basic layouts of key systems on ships don't get moved radically. Deflector control, is near the deflector, not near the shuttle bay, for example.

But, as I pointed out before, there was a handy dandy MAP in the Turbolift. Kirk could also ask the computer for extact location after stating his destination. That computer is a blabbermouth...lol.

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Originally Posted by trekgeekscott View Post
What was Scotty doing to keep the ship together? pushing buttons? Anyone could have done that...
But, who knew How to push? What to push? How to make it work? How to make systems do things they were not designed to do? Kirk? Chekov? Demora Sulu? No. Scotty, with 35+ years Starfleet experience, and experience on Excelcior class ships, or did you not see Star Trek 3?

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Originally Posted by trekgeekscott View Post
As for not having a chief engineer on board, I seriously doubt they would even do a milk run (which would involve use of the engines) without having an officer on board IN CHARGE of those engines. Having served in the Navy myself, I can say that no US Navy ship is leaving port without an engineering crew.
Well no where on the scenes, before, or afterwards, was there ANY indication of any enginerring officer on the ENT-B. When asked about medical staff, Harriman said "Tuesday.(His responce to most questions after the Emergency started)" I would assume since Scorrty jumped in, there was nobody else qualified.

I agree, in real life, this would NEVER have happened. But this Star Trek...


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Originally Posted by trekgeekscott View Post
I wont argue with you on that point...but Scotty or Harriman both would have had better knowledge than Kirk would have at that point.
Yes, but it was not a hard thing to do. Looks like a trained monkey could have changed that chip. Getting there was the only obsticle, according to you, and I allready addressed that. Kirk could get there with no difficulty thanks to the MAP and asking the COMPUTER, even en route.

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Originally Posted by trekgeekscott View Post
You're probably right about Harriman staying on his bridge. But Kirk wasn't the best option. If I had to choose between sending Harriman or Kirk, I would have sent Harriman because of his ship knowledge and left Kirk doing what he always had done best, in command of the ship for that moment.
While this SOUNDS good. In TOS, faced with the same situation, Kirk would have stayed with the bridge also. Why? Because he would know that while this senior officer could command the ship, it was still HIS ship, HIS command, ultimately HIS head if it went wrong.

Kirk affored Harriman that same respect. Look Kirk even is shown thinking about it for a few seconds, before reminding Harriman, that a Capatin belongs on their bridge.
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