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  #21  
Old 09-25-2013, 12:37 AM
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Yeah...scaling always seemed rather dubious in Trek. So many different scales for the B'rel alone. (To mention nothing of the K'vort....which was purported in the DS9 Technical Manual to be larger than a Galaxy class! Yikes!)

I've always rather considered that a ship is only as large as the warp nacelle of the ship above it.....well...to a degree. To me, a B'rel was as long as a K't'inga's warp nacelle, and a K't'inga was as long as a Vor'Cha's nacelle...and that's about where I stopped that theory. DS9's "Way of the Warrior" seems to blow that theory out of the water....with a Bird of Prey seeming to be about as long as a Vor'Cha's nacelle. Now there is where I'd figure a K'vort class battlecruiser BoP to be scaled....certainly not a B'rel's. (Again, these were my thoughts....not really based in canon.)

Ya' know, I've always thought too about a rotary loading system for the torpedoes on both BoP's and K't'ingas. (Those glowing white lights inside a K't'inga's glowing torpedo bay made me sort of think about that.) But, one time, I took that one step further with a BoP... I came up with (for use in the old FASA Star Trek Starship Combat Simulator board game) a "gatling torpedo launcher". They wouldn't fire full photon torpedoes...instead, they would fire simple spheres that magnetically contained anti-matter, and they were launched in rapid succession via a gatling/rail-gun hybrid firing system. Each projectile would hold roughly the same amount of anti-matter as a full torpedo....about 1.5kg. The projectiles would also only contain the electronics necessary to maintain the magnetic separation field until impact was registered with the target...then the field would drop, resulting in the usual violent explosion.

Pros:
-Reduction of size of projectile because of no propulsion systems, targeting sensors, etc. Only the M/AM containment field system.
-Ship can carry many times more projectiles than a standard complement of full torpedoes.
-Considerable number of projectiles can be fired at a target in rapid succession, rather than waiting for a reload of three full torpedoes in a standard launch tube. Imagine having, say, 30 projectiles coming at you, each with the payload of a full photon torpedo! Imagine being strafed by a barrage of photon projectiles!

Cons:
-No guidance system means these are direct fire weapons. The BoP must be bearing directly on its target.
-Cannot be fired at warp.
-No versatility of use, or yield.
-Far more limited range than a full photon torpedo.
-Would make a B'rel class Bird of Prey scout a formidable foe to face. Such ships could carry out devastating stealth attacks against enemy targets.
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Old 09-25-2013, 03:51 AM
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Hm. Looking at the K'tinga from the outside, it looks like it could have two discs like what I showed, one above the other, where one is being loaded while they other is spitting hellfire, not that there aren't more efficient ways of feeding in ammo.

And the K'tinga class could have larger magazines like the one I showed, holding 24 or more torpedoes rather than 12, although for the D7 MSD I just copied the launcher and magazine I drew for the B'rel.

I have the 1994 edition of the Star Trek Encyclopedia, showing four Klingon ships to "approximate" scale on p. 159, with the K'tinga slightly longer than the nacelle of the Vor'cha and a little shorter than the D7, with the B'rel about half that length. But I think it shows the Vor'cha a tad too big in comparison.
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:01 PM
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It was interesting that in the novelization of Star Trek The Motion Picture (which Gene Roddenberry wrote), he said that Admiral Kirk (who was receiving telemetry of the Klingon attack via an implant in his brain) noted that the K't'inga class battlecruiser had larger photon torpedo tubes than the old D7 class.

I would also think that a K't'inga probably carries more torpedoes than a Constitution class starship, since K't'ingas are warships, and Connies are supposedly not.

(It was also interesting to note in that same novel...again, keep in mind the novel was written by Roddenberry...Kirk mused that the Enterprise's designation as a "heavy cruiser" seemed improper. Kirk felt Enterprise should've been designated a "battleship".)

If I remember correctly, the Vor'Cha is supposed to be roughly about the size of an Ambassador class starship (Enterprise C).
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Old 09-25-2013, 04:56 PM
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Here are my figures:

B'rel: 109 m
D7: 228
Vor'cha: 481.32
Abassador: 478,5
D'deridex (Romulan Warbird): 1041.65

The figure for the Ambassador is from Rick Sternbach. He later said Mike Okuda wanted the figure of 526 to stand, because he had published that. Rick said the drawing somehow got stretched out when copied, increasing his 478.5 meters to 526. Finally, about the length, Rick just said it didn't really matter but he could live with 478.5. After changing it back and forth a couple of times, I kept it according to the original drawing, at 478.5.

I was able to get Bernd of Ex Astris Scientia to change his figure for the Wells class by showing him a scan of Rick's drawing posted on drexfiles with the size written on it, but he wouldn't change his listing for the Type 10 even after I got the intended size from Doug Drexler, the designer. who argues that it does fit into the most accurate version of the Defiant CGI. Doug told me directly it should be 8 meters, and Bernd still insists on 6.5.

But even for SpaceShipOne, a real craft now in the Smithsonian, when i looked for dimensions, I found that the Smithsonian, the manufacturer, and Wikipedia each had figures that disagreed with the other two. For the Nebula class I was lucky, because the saucer width is the same as for the Galaxy class, about which there is no argument, allowing me to ignore the conflicting figures on the Web and calculate based on measurements. The same goes for the Argo Baja buggy. I used the known wheelbase of the Toyota truck it was built from. For the inspection pod of the NX-01 and a few other things, I got dimensions directly from the Christie's auction catalog.

For the Romulan Warbird, I was able to get some help from Andy Probert. He said they grabbed the drawing before he had a chance to put in the impulse plasma exhausts and that the model builder didn't notice the omission. So even though they're missing onscreen, I added them to the MSD according to his instructions. He also said that they were wrong to show a disruptor blast coming from the main deflector. He also said that the row of bumps on top were escape pods and that Doug Drexler didn't know that when he added a small version of them when designing Romulan Sentator Vreenak's shuttle.

My wife gave up on Trek when she saw the Ferengi.
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:58 PM
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Yeah, Star Trek had phasers coming out of the wrong spots from another ep I could name.

Darmok-- The Ent D fires phasers from its forward torpedo launcher?

Also, I rather liked in "Redemption Part I" how the Vor'Cha's main forward disruptor cannon fired a plasma styled energy bolt, rather than the boring green disruptor beam we've seen in latter eps.

Another thing, they actually corrected the energy beam discharge from the Enterprise in "Encounter At Farpoint". When Picard orders main phaser banks rigged to deliver an energy beam at the "station". In the original televised and DVD episodes, the phaser beam came from the lower sensor array (as was often referenced about the original Enterprise in TOS). In the blu-ray upgrade, the energy beam was corrected to fire from the ventral phaser strip.
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Old 09-26-2013, 05:08 PM
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PROGRESS REPORT: KLINGONS ATTACKING V'GER REMAKE

My remake continues apace. I already have over half the footage shot, and am now at the point where V'ger retaliates.

There are already a couple of good TMP opening sequence remakes out there on YouTube....I know mine can't compete with them, but I do think it'll make for worthy viewing when I release it. I took a couple of liberties with some shots to compensate for the lack of internal set shooting. Also had to adjust and rearrange Jerry Goldsmith's majestic score to suit the scene.
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