[trekgeekscott]

Originally Posted by wal

Ya know, it's true that religious folk thinks that homosexuality is nasty, but they aren't the only ones who think that. They are the only ones who get pigeonholed with that attribute. There are also a lot of non-religious folk who are tolerant of gays but considers their lifestyle deviant as well.

As for us religious, we are required to love our fellow man.
That's true tolerance.
But nobody- neither religious nor secular- is required to like, appreciate or approve of everyone's actions or behaviour.

Most people aren't suggesting otherwise. What they are suggesting is that there are those that want laws and even constitutional amendments denying the same legalities apply to homosexuals as to heterosexuals. Unless something will harm society in general (ie murder etc) there should be no reason it is illegal. Laws exist to protect more than anything else. If no harm would come, why not allow it?

[Damage75]

I think it’s fair to tell people when they are behaving wrongly. If I hear someone making racist remarks, I don’t think I’m stepping on their toes to tell them I think it’s wrong to do. The problem with just accepting that “people freak out” on this issue is that puts them in the power position. If we all step back and say “oh, they have every right to raise a ruckus” then the ruckus raisers will be the only ones who get heard. I almost feel like we’re obligated to step forward and object to people flipping out over others living their lives normally. If we don’t, then eventually some group is going to decide something we do isn’t normal enough and try to stop us.

I guess I could have been clearer. I have no problem telling people that I think they are wrong, but I won't tell them that they are wrong.

Even a racist is entitled to their opinion. As am I that they are a bunch of horses' asses.

[Elizadolots]

One thing that's always fascinated me about those who oppose Gay's marrying (monogamous homosexuals...what a threat!) is the idea, often proposed, that it somehow threatens the sanctity of marriage or makes marriage less important. I've seen women interviewed who acted as though the very idea of Gay's marrying diminished the importance of their own marriages. I don't get that. Your marriage is important to you because you love the person you are with. Others being with the people they love doesn't change that.

[Botany Bay]

Originally Posted by Elizadolots

One thing that's always fascinated me about those who oppose Gay's marrying (monogamous homosexuals...what a threat!) is the idea, often proposed, that it somehow threatens the sanctity of marriage or makes marriage less important. I've seen women interviewed who acted as though the very idea of Gay's marrying diminished the importance of their own marriages. I don't get that. Your marriage is important to you because you love the person you are with. Others being with the people they love doesn't change that.

Is ist really so hard to understand?: If perverted subhuman dirt is allowed to marry, then marriage as a holly institution for superhumen is diminished.

I see this kind of argumentations pretty often. To represent gays in movies is "glorification of their life style" is my favourite example of this kind of logic.

However, perhaps we return to the "Gays in Trek" thread for debating this issue.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by Elizadolots

One thing that's always fascinated me about those who oppose Gay's marrying (monogamous homosexuals...what a threat!) is the idea, often proposed, that it somehow threatens the sanctity of marriage or makes marriage less important. I've seen women interviewed who acted as though the very idea of Gay's marrying diminished the importance of their own marriages. I don't get that. Your marriage is important to you because you love the person you are with. Others being with the people they love doesn't change that.

How many people have we known in our lives who stayed in a bad marrige for "the kids", "because my deity says so", "I cannot escape", ect ect???

Eliza, you are right, it's about 2 people who love, nothing more, nothing less.

To The Others-

It's not about procreation, how many peopole have we known who had kids they didn't want ,or expect?

To the people who say I am religous bigot, I truely am not. I am opposed to any people, no matter who they are, who say one thing, do another, and claim it in the name of a cause they don't truely pratice themselves.

I am aware there are great people out there who belive love and accept others as their religon teaches them to. I applaud and salute them. They are welcome anytime.

No one ever said you had to like someone or their beliefs, but this is America, where the credo is supposed to be, "I may not agree with what your saying, but I will defend your right to say it!" When did we quit standing up for rights for our citizens? For when we stand up for another's rights, you stand for your own as well!

America is also founded on the fact of, if you don't want to be around someone, no matter what the reason, then don't be around them. It's a big country.

If you don't like what's on TV, radio, internet, cd's, ect, there's this magic button called "off." If you keep watching and griping about things, what does that say about that person. If you cannot turn away from thing you don't want to see, maybe there's a bigger problem.

I have NEVER, repeat, NEVER told anyone they were wrong for what they belive. I have debated, and questioned convictions, but never said anyone was "bad" or "wrong" for what they choose to belive.

We, in America (sorry you guys elsewhere) should be standing for ALL rights, not just the ideas and groups that might sound godo to us personally. Especially in this age where more and more of our rights disappear under the concepts of "terror" and "safety and security." Thos who would trade freedom and rights for "safety and security" do not deserve either.

THIS is the ideas behind Star Trek's society, tolerance, and standing up for somone else's rights, even if it's not your personal belief, because we are ALL part of a greater whole.

If you don't walk away with even a little of this idealism from Trek, then you are either not watching closely enough, or are confusing it with Lost In Space...LOL."

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now...

[trekgeekscott]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

It's not about procreation, how many peopole have we known who had kids they didn't want ,or expect?

To further this comment,
How many people get married that are Unable to have kids? Infertile or senior couples?
How many peopel get married with no intention of ever having kids?

Yet marriage is not denied to any of them...as long as they are of opposite sex.

[Zardoz]

Originally Posted by trekgeekscott

To further this comment,
How many people get married that are Unable to have kids? Infertile or senior couples?
How many peopel get married with no intention of ever having kids?

Yet marriage is not denied to any of them...as long as they are of opposite sex.

Uuummmm didn't we just say the same thing?

[wal]

Originally Posted by trekgeekscott

Most people aren't suggesting otherwise. What they are suggesting is that there are those that want laws and even constitutional amendments denying the same legalities apply to homosexuals as to heterosexuals. Unless something will harm society in general (ie murder etc) there should be no reason it is illegal. Laws exist to protect more than anything else. If no harm would come, why not allow it?

Tell me something: are heterosexuals different types of beings than heterosexuals? Or are they the same?

Also, do we want all people to marry each other? Or only *certain* people?

[wal]

Originally Posted by Zardoz

But I do against the people who twist words of peace and tolerance to their own agaenda, and tell others that is how to live, while not praticing what they preach.

And that is why the right considers itself fighting for their rights and freedoms from the left.

[wal]

Originally Posted by trekgeekscott

Well, truthfully most people want just that others be able to live their lives and not have Christians force their beliefs on others.

And most people- Christians in particular- want to live their lives without the gay agenda being forced unto them.