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  #11  
Old 08-30-2012, 02:30 AM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
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I find I just can't get behind anything Lucas has done since reviving SW. If it was only just that he couldn't stop messing with his films and could not appreciate them as the finished works they already were, it would be unfortunate. For him. To have climbed that high and not be able to appreciate his success. If it were enough that he couldn't realize and accept his own limitations in conceptualizing the prequels, it would be sad. But he doesn't respect his fans (consumers), and he doesn't care for the history or preservation of his films. Skeptics can dismiss it as fan ranting (admittedly some fans make it a little too easy), however whether or not the films are 'his' property is very much open to philosophical debate regardless of what the legal position happens to be. The consumers disagree with him and the Library of Congress disagrees with him. Too many other people helped him to realize his films. But whatever. It remains beyond anybody's control for the time being.

I choose to do the one thing that's within my power, and that's to disengage. I'll wake up again if and when Lucas does something that I like. The rest of the time... I really just don't care. No time to waste on post-converted 3D presentations of films I already don't really like.
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  #12  
Old 08-30-2012, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by martok2112 View Post
Alas, sadly, George does not regard the longtime fans when it comes to what he deems is his definitive vision of Star Wars...and those are the special editions. But, it's his universe, his property, and he's free to do what he will. George still sees Star Wars as an incomplete canvas. I suppose he always will as long as the technology evolves to where he can make even more and more changes until...hell...until the day he dies I guess...and then at that, I wonder if he would die happy with how he evolved his films looks.

The only things I had probs with in the special edition of the trilogy were Greedo shooting first, and Darth Vader's redubbed line in The Empire Strikes Back ("Alert my star destroyer to prepare for my arrival!") Didn't even sound like James Earl Jones. And the line was completely unnecessary.

Didn't really care for the "NO! NOOOOOO!" in RotJ either, but at least it wasn't as cringeworthy as I thought it would be.
This. He is the director, incidentally not the only one in the world who changes his movies years or decades after the cinematic release, not to mention that he owns the studio so it is his prerogative.
Nothing against ruthless critique but when the rape my childhood faction feels entitled to tell an artist what to do and not to do with something that is his and not theirs they obviously went off the deep end.
Meanwhile I am looking forward to a new season of Clone Wars.
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2012, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
This. He is the director, incidentally not the only one in the world who changes his movies years or decades after the cinematic release, not to mention that he owns the studio so it is his prerogative.
Nothing against ruthless critique but when the rape my childhood faction feels entitled to tell an artist what to do and not to do with something that is his and not theirs they obviously went off the deep end.
Meanwhile I am looking forward to a new season of Clone Wars.
I lost a lot of respect for George Lucas after reading this "The Greatest Speech against the Special Edition was from George Lucas." I don't care if Lucas wants to continue making changes as long as he starts releasing the different versions of the films and stops trying to bury the past. Until then as far as I'm concerned he is a hypocrite.
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Old 08-30-2012, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by samwiseb View Post
I find I just can't get behind anything Lucas has done since reviving SW. If it was only just that he couldn't stop messing with his films and could not appreciate them as the finished works they already were, it would be unfortunate. For him. To have climbed that high and not be able to appreciate his success. If it were enough that he couldn't realize and accept his own limitations in conceptualizing the prequels, it would be sad. But he doesn't respect his fans (consumers), and he doesn't care for the history or preservation of his films. Skeptics can dismiss it as fan ranting (admittedly some fans make it a little too easy), however whether or not the films are 'his' property is very much open to philosophical debate regardless of what the legal position happens to be. The consumers disagree with him and the Library of Congress disagrees with him. Too many other people helped him to realize his films. But whatever. It remains beyond anybody's control for the time being.

I choose to do the one thing that's within my power, and that's to disengage. I'll wake up again if and when Lucas does something that I like. The rest of the time... I really just don't care. No time to waste on post-converted 3D presentations of films I already don't really like.
This.

There is a faction within everything that has a following that falls into the ranting category (including Star Trek) but they are really a side issue to those raised above regarding the philosophical side of the preservation and protection argument.

Some people get that, some dismiss it as handily.

The problem with Star Wars (and I agree he's now too far removed from things to have respect for the fans much anymore) is that too many will still pony up and pay for it over and over. I have to fight the temptation as well.
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Old 08-30-2012, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
I lost a lot of respect for George Lucas after reading this "The Greatest Speech against the Special Edition was from George Lucas." I don't care if Lucas wants to continue making changes as long as he starts releasing the different versions of the films and stops trying to bury the past. Until then as far as I'm concerned he is a hypocrite.
I think THAT Lucas has been erased as well now.
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  #16  
Old 08-30-2012, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Enterprise Captain View Post
I lost a lot of respect for George Lucas after reading this "The Greatest Speech against the Special Edition was from George Lucas." I don't care if Lucas wants to continue making changes as long as he starts releasing the different versions of the films and stops trying to bury the past. Until then as far as I'm concerned he is a hypocrite.
I couldn't care less about what he has said or not said and whether he is inconsistent or not. I care about his work, not his opinions.

He is an artist and businessman and like anybody else he has every right to do with his property whatever the hell he wants to as long as it doesn't harm anybody.
Nobody would claim that Paramount destroyed a cultural heritage when they CGI-ified TOS and TNG. But in the case of Wars people who don't like the changes seemingly cannot just say so but have to give their opinion more gravitas via playing the cultural heritage card.
Who is next on the list, Scott for his final cut of Blade Runner, Coppola for his final cut of Apocalypse Now?
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I couldn't care less about what he has said or not said and whether he is inconsistent or not. I care about his work, not his opinions.

He is an artist and businessman and like anybody else he has every right to do with his property whatever the hell he wants to as long as it doesn't harm anybody.
Nobody would claim that Paramount destroyed a cultural heritage when they CGI-ified TOS and TNG. But in the case of Wars people who don't like the changes seemingly cannot just say so but have to give their opinion more gravitas via playing the cultural heritage card.
Who is next on the list, Scott for his final cut of Blade Runner, Coppola for his final cut of Apocalypse Now?
The difference with all the examples you provided is that the other cuts are still available. Blade Runner has 5 different versions.

Last edited by Enterprise Captain : 08-30-2012 at 08:18 AM.
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  #18  
Old 08-30-2012, 08:18 AM
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The difference with all the examples you provided is that the other cuts are available. Blade Runner has 5 different versions.
I think this is one of the distinctions. Scott isn't seemingly obsessed with the erasure of his originals like Lucas. There was a thread about 6 months ago that became all about this topic though. Probably most of what I said then still stands. Can't find it just now though.

Half the time I think Lucas keeps tinkering because he has nothing new to produce.
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  #19  
Old 08-30-2012, 09:11 AM
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The difference with all the examples you provided is that the other cuts are still available. Blade Runner has 5 different versions.
Once again, there is no public right for the maintenance of any piece of privately owned art and certainly no Star Wars fan right for the continued existence of a version which the owner wants to cease to exist. Fans who care so deeply about differences which an ordinary viewer like myself barely notices can carry the torch and maintain VHSversions if they view Lucas as a Stalinist eradicator of the past.
One of my favourite authors went quite often over his manuscripts and this writing habit also made him change his stuff decades later. Yet nowadays only the later versions are published. I sometimes prefer the first version and I will not give away the respective book with the first version, analogous to maintaining your VHS copy of Wars or digitalizing it ... but I neither rant about him and claim that he is a destroyer of our cultural heritage just because he slightly changed his material decades after it has been published without offering the reading audience the former version as well.
Anybody who ever tried to write, paint, make a piece of music or shoot a movie knows how preposterous this notion is. Art is like sculpturing, creating literally goes hand in hand with destroying (erasing words or lines in a manuscript, cutting a movie, overwriting a previous recording, painting over parts already filled with colour).

Once the copyright runs out 70 years or so after the death of the artist the issue is of course a different one and I certainly wouldn't argue that any copies of the original Star Wars which might be found in the future should not be preserved independent of the will of Lucas. We wouldn't be able to read Kafka if the will of the artist is respected after his death.
But until the copyright (I think by the way that copyrights are too tight and that the timespan after death should be drastically reduced but certainly not to a pre-death level.) runs out Lucas respectively his company are the owners and can do with their art whatever they want. The fans might feel entitled to decide the fate of something they love (it's kinda like with sport fans who shout frantically at the players because they want to influence the game somehow) but they have no right at all. All you can do is vote with your purse and criticize a movie.

By the way, if Lucas is really such a greedy, soulless bastard he should react to the demand for the original Wars. But obviously he doesn't because he cares first and above all about his vision, independent of whether it is liked or not. Real art is not an on-demand product.
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  #20  
Old 08-30-2012, 09:26 AM
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http://www.startrekmovie.com/forums/...=11563&page=18

Ah, I knew it was around here somewhere.

This seemed to cover it all at the time, from what I recall.
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