The Official Star Trek Movie Forum

The Official Star Trek Movie Forum > Star Trek > Off Topic Discussions > Stargate Universe
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 08-04-2012, 11:37 AM
Captain Tom Coughlin's Avatar
Captain Tom Coughlin Captain Tom Coughlin is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USS Meadowlands
Posts: 10,985
Default

I don't misunderstand anything, and I'm certainly no sheep. DS9 had a much darker tone years before 9/11. Your premise is flawed.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-04-2012, 11:51 AM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,257
Default

It is not my premise, Trek is a progressive and not a reactionary sci-fi franchise. Of course right-wingers cannot stand this but that is their problem, not mine.
"It is only good when it is dark" is most of the times just a euphemism for "I want the protagonists to not be bound by ethical rules". In other words, a plead for a transgressive carnival. When VOY was dark we encountered the very opposite, Janeway ruthlessly enforcing Starfleet ethics when she deals with Ransom. And of course the most brilliant episode of VOY was a very bright one which illustrated the benefits of cooperation when the mini-Federation was creates in this space bubble thingy.

The show wasn't bad just because they didn't deal longer with the Maquis issue. That's a critique from a position of expectation, not an evaluation of actual episodes. It is in no way guaranteed that the show would have been better with more focus on the Maquis, it could have very well been worse if it had gone down the pseudo-drama road.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-04-2012, 11:51 AM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,173
Default

Not everything is about 9/11.

(And you can even capitalize and punctuate each word in that sentence when quoting me. You have my permission.)
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-04-2012, 12:03 PM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
Commander
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,173
Default

....
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-04-2012, 12:04 PM
kevin's Avatar
kevin kevin is offline
Federation Councillor
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Kilbride, Glasgow, UK
Posts: 21,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
I don't misunderstand anything, and I'm certainly no sheep. DS9 had a much darker tone years before 9/11. Your premise is flawed.
Quite correct, 'darker' toned Trek predated that event (as we all know) by several years but that isn't even the issue in regards to VOY.

The premise was to take a group and strand them in the middle of nowhere cut off from everything. While trying to maintain their principles along the way. The show never fully capitalised on that premise (which wouldn't even have meant staying dark necessarily week in week anyway) in favour of keeping it simpler most of the time. Personally I think it was a mere attempt to give Trek a TOS 'out there' flavour again and not because that sort of dramatic exploration was on their minds. It was a gimmick to make it seem different to prior series. But still, it's not, I believe, unfair to say it was not willing to explore the situation the ship was in to it's fullest.

Instead we got Tom Paris accused of murder and a small dog providing the key clue to the real killer! If that's the route they wanted to take fine. But it made it a bland cookie cutter series.

Regarding Stargate.........I missed the boat on that franchise WAAAY back and now it's this large collection of material I would need to go back to day 1 on probably.
__________________
'If the Apocalypse starts, beep me!' - Buffy Summers
'The sky's the limit.....' Jean-Luc Picard, 'All Good Things'


courtesy of Saquist

Last edited by kevin : 08-04-2012 at 12:32 PM. Reason: blame the ad breaks.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-04-2012, 01:13 PM
Captain Tom Coughlin's Avatar
Captain Tom Coughlin Captain Tom Coughlin is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USS Meadowlands
Posts: 10,985
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin View Post
Quite correct, 'darker' toned Trek predated that event (as we all know) by several years but that isn't even the issue in regards to VOY.

The premise was to take a group and strand them in the middle of nowhere cut off from everything. While trying to maintain their principles along the way. The show never fully capitalised on that premise (which wouldn't even have meant staying dark necessarily week in week anyway) in favour of keeping it simpler most of the time. Personally I think it was a mere attempt to give Trek a TOS 'out there' flavour again and not because that sort of dramatic exploration was on their minds. It was a gimmick to make it seem different to prior series. But still, it's not, I believe, unfair to say it was not willing to explore the situation the ship was in to it's fullest.

Instead we got Tom Paris accused of murder and a small dog providing the key clue to the real killer! If that's the route they wanted to take fine. But it made it a bland cookie cutter series.

Regarding Stargate.........I missed the boat on that franchise WAAAY back and now it's this large collection of material I would need to go back to day 1 on probably.

I agree completely. They wanted to put them literally "where no one has gone before" without really exploring the idea of what happens to people that have been stranded like that.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-04-2012, 01:15 PM
Captain Tom Coughlin's Avatar
Captain Tom Coughlin Captain Tom Coughlin is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USS Meadowlands
Posts: 10,985
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
It is not my premise, Trek is a progressive and not a reactionary sci-fi franchise. Of course right-wingers cannot stand this but that is their problem, not mine.
"It is only good when it is dark" is most of the times just a euphemism for "I want the protagonists to not be bound by ethical rules". In other words, a plead for a transgressive carnival. When VOY was dark we encountered the very opposite, Janeway ruthlessly enforcing Starfleet ethics when she deals with Ransom. And of course the most brilliant episode of VOY was a very bright one which illustrated the benefits of cooperation when the mini-Federation was creates in this space bubble thingy.

The show wasn't bad just because they didn't deal longer with the Maquis issue. That's a critique from a position of expectation, not an evaluation of actual episodes. It is in no way guaranteed that the show would have been better with more focus on the Maquis, it could have very well been worse if it had gone down the pseudo-drama road.
If the show was really meant to be about Starfleet ethics, they wouldn't have been stranded in the first place. They would have used the Caretaker array to go back home. Interfering in the Ocampa's situation is a clear violation of Federation law and principle. She actively chose a side in a situation she had no business involving herself as a representative of the Federation. That's your Starfleet ethics for ya.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-04-2012, 01:30 PM
horatio's Avatar
horatio horatio is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 9,257
Default

This was not a PD case, Janeway was literally thrown into the middle of the situation and had two options, to get her crew home or rescue the Ocampa from slaughter or enslavement. I do not have to point out that the well-being of the Ocampa is more important than the mere lack of comfort of being far away from home, that life and liberty matter more than having to endure an odyssey.
And yes, such a selfless act is radically ethical (which is precisely why so many Trekkers have an issue with it). She could have easily had a mutiny on her hands because of this decision.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-04-2012, 01:32 PM
Saquist's Avatar
Saquist Saquist is offline
Fleet Admiral
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roysten View Post
I enjoyed it personally. I agree that certain aspects of it were contrived and plot holes and convenient fixes occurred more often then I would have liked but it is darker, the character interactions are a highpoint of the series IMO, it feels like a real group of people. Often there's a sense of urgency and hopelessness that you rarely got in the other series and the tone and general atmosphere are spot on IMO.

As people are pointing out it's not perfect though, some of the episodes seem a bit devoid of a real point and it certainly lacks the fun of the other shows. Another way of putting it would be It isn't your fathers Stargate!

Worth the watch Omega, enjoy!
Most of the time in the First Season of SGU I was struggling to figure out why we were watching so many self biographies through those dumb kino's and the stones were just over used...I was truly bored.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:50 PM.


Forum theme courtesy of Mark Lambert
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 by Paramount Pictures. STAR TREK and all related
marks and logos are trademarks of CBS Studios Inc. All Rights Reserved.