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  #31  
Old 06-20-2012, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-Am-Zim View Post
However, Wars and Trek are technically of two different genres. Trek is Science Fiction while Wars is Science Fantasy. The two are almost like oil and water. They shouldn't mix. Abrams has attempted to inject way too much Star Wars into Star Trek and has thus destroyed what Star Trek is. He has diluted Trek's uniqueness by making it just another generic action/adventure/stuff go boom flick for the short attention span generation. And that makes me very angry. And sad.
While I agree with your criticism of Abrams' Trek. I don't see a divide between Trek and Wars in terms of genre. Both are science fiction/fantasy. Sure, Trek seems more science oriented, but alot of the tech and feats of technology in Trek are pure fantasy.
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  #32  
Old 06-20-2012, 08:37 AM
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I've always felt Trek has been pretty flexible in its storytelling. One minute, it could be heady and all that. The next minute, it could be an action-filled frag-fest.

This was one of those "next minutes".

Trek is different things to different folks. Ever since I was five (many moons hence), I always liked Trek for the space battles. As I grew older, I became more attuned to more intellectual stories...but things going BOOM....that was my first priority.

I'm not gonna sit here and cite the virtues of the 2009 movie, because it will just lead to more circular b.s.....and I'm not about arguing over a piece of fiction.
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  #33  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:04 AM
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I think Zim has a point, Trek has a bit of this slightly dry sci-fi feeling whereas Wars has more of an epic and mythical quality and with Spock senior and all this fate stuff in STXI this feels more like something like Wars.
Yet I also think that we could be glad if the next Trek series will be just half as good as Clone Wars.
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  #34  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:48 AM
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Clone Wars FTW, babayyyyyyy!!!!!
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  #35  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:54 AM
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I've still never actually started with Clone Wars.

I would add it to my service rental list but I already have about a hundred films and dozens of complete TV series to rent and watch that I'll probably be deceased before I can get round to them all.

I've only just started 'Boardwalk Empire' that way.

And anyway, when dealing with something as widely varying in quality, tonality and consistency as Star Trek, it's never entirely wise to generically assume who parts of it appeal to and the reasons therewith. It's one of those conversational threads that can be questionable to pull at..........
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  #36  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horatio View Post
I think Zim has a point, Trek has a bit of this slightly dry sci-fi feeling whereas Wars has more of an epic and mythical quality and with Spock senior and all this fate stuff in STXI this feels more like something like Wars.
I see elements from both, prior Trek movies (ST: NMS, ST:TMP, TWOK), as well as Star Wars movies (ANH, TESB) in STXI. But let's not forget, this isn't the first Trek movie to borrow from Wars; ST:TSFS is very reminescent of SW: ANH, from the bar scene (similar to Mos Eisley in Wars) to the scene where Kirk springs Bones from prison (similar to the rescue of Leia by Han).
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  #37  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:58 AM
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I personally don't think that Trek and Wars are particularly similar (pre-Trek09), I agree that some aspects of Star Trek are fantasy like, but the main difference is in the story telling. You could take Star Wars and put it in any era, make it a swords and sandals film, a medieval film, a film in modern times and it would work. Whereas the best of Star Trek has always used the science fiction platform to discuss ideas that were controversial for the audience (though I will admit this was done rarely in its later incarnations).

As for how much Wars is injected into this new film, I'm hoping for not much, though I'm not optimistic.
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  #38  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:01 AM
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Star Trek as an entity has borrowed widely and freely. Sometimes I privately believe things seem similar because I think that's how people want to view them in the first place. Perhaps the opposite also applies. Well, it likely does. You have a scene in a bar..........dozens of films have had such scenes in various permutations.

Is it really Mos Eisley influenced or not? Answers on a postcard to......

But were we to look at all the influences in Star Trek over the years......................well, a lot of sci-fi films and TV shows overlap and influence each other thanks to common themes and story elements. That's all I'm saying.
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Last edited by kevin : 06-20-2012 at 11:08 AM.
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  #39  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:27 PM
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Star Trek still owes a lot of its continued existence to the popularity and energy of Star Wars. Star Wars made sci-fi cool for a population that still largely viewed sci-fi as "nerd" territory.(edited to avoid inflammatory connotation)

If Star Trek were released the way it was originally intended, as a Phase II tv series, I really doubt it would've endured as well as it did when it made its big screen debut in '79, two years after Star Wars. It might have gotten one or two seasons, ala Battlestar Galactica (1 season), Galactica 1980 (mercifully less than half a season), and Buck Rogers (2 seasons).

And, Star Wars veteran John Dykstra was largely responsible for saving the look of Star Trek TMP....as the original effects shots that were made by the first FX house were completely unusable in Rob Wise's eyes.

Not saying this stuff to make arguments or stir any pots..(edited to avoid inflammatory connotation). This is simple truth. I'm glad Star Wars paved the way for Star Trek's return, both in the 70's and in the new millennium.

And now, for one of my favorite parting shots:
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  #40  
Old 06-20-2012, 05:38 PM
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I found this delicious quote by the recently deceased Ray Bradbury on the difference between science fiction and fantasy, that relates to the discussion here,


"Science fiction is a depiction of the real. Fantasy is a depiction of the unreal. So Martian Chronicles is not science fiction, it's fantasy. It couldn't happen, you see? That's the reason it's going to be around a long time — because it's a Greek myth, and myths have staying power."

-Ray Bradbury
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