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  #61  
Old 05-26-2012, 01:47 PM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
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Oh, by the way I went back and read the review you linked to once I had the time. It may indeed be one of the more glowing reviews but he does raise one or two perspectives on Nero's action I hadn't thought about for a while. And I have to sorta concur with his comments about Roddenberry to some degree regarding TOS. It's a feeling I somewhat share and is the kind of thing that didn't always stop after him. It's the sort of thing which undermines, for example, the themes in GEN.
The guy wrote a rather scathing blog just after ENT got cancelled. I remember thinking it seemed (somewhat) mean-spirited and unnecessary, but that he couldn't have picked a more appropriate time for it. And also that I couldn't say he was necessarily wrong.
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:54 PM
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The guy wrote a rather scathing blog just after ENT got cancelled. I remember thinking it seemed (somewhat) mean-spirited and unnecessary, but that he couldn't have picked a more appropriate time for it. And also that I couldn't say he was necessarily wrong.
I take it from his ST09 review it wasn't a supportive one for either ENT or Trek in general?
I had a (very) quick look around his site and one or two other reviews and he certainly doesn't appear to hold back on his opinions. I can imagine already if his ire was truly up that could be quite the read.
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  #63  
Old 05-26-2012, 02:13 PM
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I take it from his ST09 review it wasn't a supportive one for either ENT or Trek in general?
I had a (very) quick look around his site and one or two other reviews and he certainly doesn't appear to hold back on his opinions. I can imagine already if his ire was truly up that could be quite the read.
He basically wrote the entire franchise off as derivative and unredeeming, and implied that fans needed to walk away and read more. He didn't make conditional exceptions for parts of it being 'serviceable' like he did in his ST09 review. Had he written the same article ten years earlier, or five years later, I suppose he might have worded it differently.

EDIT: Found it. Just by googling "orson scott card" and "we're in college now".
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Old 05-26-2012, 02:40 PM
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Yes, he does seem to lump everything together in one sweep doesn't he. I think that is being a bit too harsh on it all, but yet when you think of some aspects of Trek there's also some underlying truth in there to be found. I can get the college analogy just by thinking of the likes of INS for just one example. But, overall I do think he's being a bit tough there.
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Old 05-26-2012, 02:41 PM
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"Most people weren't reading all that brilliant science fiction. Most people weren't reading at all. [...] Lost [...] Buffy [...]."

I wouldn't mention the big writers of sci-fi, accuse people of being illiterate and then praise some anti-enlightenment mystery stuff like "Lost" and mix sci-fi with fantasy (which is obviously also motivated by an anti-enlightenment POV) unless I wanted to be satirical.
Bradbury knew why he didn't want to work on Trek, Trek can definitely not compete with literature but virtually nothing on TV can.
But at least the franchise features a few original ideas (What are Asimov's ideas, anything else besides the robot laws and the psychohistorians/supercomputers kind of stuff?) and some of its scripts have a near-literary quality.
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:35 PM
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Yes, he does seem to lump everything together in one sweep doesn't he. I think that is being a bit too harsh on it all, but yet when you think of some aspects of Trek there's also some underlying truth in there to be found. I can get the college analogy just by thinking of the likes of INS for just one example. But, overall I do think he's being a bit tough there.
Probably. As a fan, I can't write most of ST off the way he does. But I don't think it hurts to be able to hear this kind of stuff either. I mean, come on, the original series used up its best ideas in about 30-or-so episodes. One doesn't need to be a fan to see that. And I can't say he didn't get my attention (he also wrote a glowing review of Serenity that same year).

I find his books to be insightful psychologically and philosophically, but most of his characters frustratingly limited by whatever state of mind he chooses each one to represent. I do think Ender's Game itself (and its counterpart Ender's Shadow) was a good story though, and has potential for a strong movie.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:36 PM
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I somehow doubt 'progressive' even registers on a list of things that non-fans commonly recognize (let alone openly dislike) about ST.
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:55 PM
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Nor does it mean he's entirely wrong about the state of writing on Trek. One doesn't have to be a homophobe or a rampant queen to look at it and see where problems were. The guy said he liked TWOK after all and some of TNG.

But as far as I know Mormonism is the root of the two highlighted matters. Not stances I approve of personally by the way, but it alas doesn't mean there's not a few points made.

Course, I never watched 'Lost' but I'd have to say 'Buffy' was much better as a series than VOY at least, so I only know that 'Lost' has one of those 'It's a masterpiece'/'It's a load of baloney' style reactions to it all. There seems no middle ground with it.
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  #70  
Old 05-27-2012, 12:16 AM
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LOST was very much like Galactica. Very gritty, very character-driven and even somewhat overblown. It think it teased the audience with more and more setup than it was ultimately capable of paying off, yet even realizing this continued to tease right up to the finale. Like Galactica. The characters and relationships felt very contemporary, and reacted to the whimsical intrusion of sci-fi/paranormal events into their world far more 'realistically' than I think is even possible within the box of more conventional hardware-oriented sci-fi. The show became needlessly complicated in latter seasons, with characters being divided into ever-shifting factions and moved about seemingly for the purpose of padding out those seasons. 'Supposedly' all the paranormal encounters during this time tied together into a it's-all-finally-come-down-to-this manor, but without an extensive flowchart you'd just be taking the show's word for it (not unlike both Galactica and DS9).

I wasn't a 'huge' fan of LOST, but I made a point not to miss it (which is more than I could say for latter-day ST). And I had high expectations for Abrams Trek based on LOST. Not all of those expectations have been met. Many of them were molded gradually over time to conform with the latest developing news and rumors about ST09, and I only realize that in retrospect. I still want something slower and more personal from these movies. If ST09 hasn't sabotaged that by leaving Paramount with too many expectations of their own. And if a person can assume from a writer/producer's TV work what kind film director he wants to be.

As for Buffy... I honestly think Joss Whedon is a master (no pun was intended; I'm actually turned off somewhat by his more obsessive fanbase) when it comes to setup and payoff in a TV format. Compared to Ron Moore, who keeps blowing the bubble up and up until no real satisfactory conclusion is possible (DS9, BSG), or Straczynski, who plotted B5 so rigidly that when politics intervened (as they always will) forced compromises still resulted in bait-and-switch resolutions to things that had already been set up.

I also see Joss as being in a similar place as JJ... where he's wanting to carve out a film directing career for himself, has had reasonable success with The Avengers, but remains to be seen if he can afford to do or wants to do something that might be less commercial.
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