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  #41  
Old 05-23-2012, 07:35 AM
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I'm sure there are some folks out there who might call the ST09 'perfect', certainly no-one primarily left here so can we stop inferring that liking it better than GEN equates to calling it that? It's inaccurate.

Does ST09 work better as a film? Yeah. I used to describe it as a coming of age theme but I also think it's what's also known as 'The Hero's Journey' as well (it can be googled so I'm not going into it's structure) so I think now it's more the latter. But it still works better as it's done.

Whether GEN has a theme is irrelevant if it's not a theme one individually gets much mileage out of. I find it's 'make a difference' theme quite trite as it's quite unsubtly hammered home by the script. it's a theme that can work..............but not when it's handled like a bull in a china shop. Of course, Star Trek is not known for not always hammering the point home well past it's moment.
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  #42  
Old 05-23-2012, 07:45 AM
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Yes, it's really only Kirk's insta-promotions that I was referring to. I had no problem with Uhura's as that made a certain amount of sense. She had the language skills needed, the other guy did not. Scotty may not have even really been a promotion, his career already seemed underway so that did not bother me. But Kirk's did.

As did the idea that the cadets were needed in the first place for that matter. These are not fatal flaws, but they do stand out to me.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Roysten View Post
Yeah can't really argue with that. Shame there was such a rush to get Gen out after the end of the TNG season 7. I mean compare it to All Good Things and you start to wonder what went wrong.



I thought it was ok, the lighting was an interesting idea, but taken way too far in my opinion. Like the lens flare that Abrams used, the darkness and shadows on the Enterprise were just too much. Used a little more subtly and it could have been really effective, instead you just think that the Enterprise is trying to lower its electricity bill.



Some of the music I liked, but it is weak compared to the other films. Why didn't Jerry Goldsmith do this one? Anyone know?
Well, ever since the failure of V, he didn't want to do another Star Trek score again. But, a year later (after Gen) he did write the opening theme for Voyager and then I guess he agreed to do First Contact.
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  #44  
Old 05-23-2012, 06:12 PM
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Of all the Trek Films prior to 2009, Generations was the the movie with the biggest Advertisement budget. They teamed up with (Taco Bell) like real movies and pressed Kirk and Picard. I had high hopes for the film but it was a gloried episode and that would be the essence of all the TNG movies to decline along the same path.

(while almost no one notices the Too fast missile. Nearly every adult knew an upstart that wasn't even respected in the Academy a Command and captain Rank was a dusch bag move by Abrams.

He's put on academic probation.
Charged with Mutiny by Spock and unceremoniously kicked off the ship. There not moment of 2009 Trek that wasn't forced this was just the sensational cherry on top. Ultimately Abrams didn't really care, as long as he got the money the studio wanted.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:03 PM
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I don't buy the 'Abrams didn't care' line. Never did. No-one has been able to convince me yet on that line of criticism.

And I don't think that Kirk's ascendancy through the ranks is the dealbreaker some try and argue it as either. Although curiously it seems to appear more than the destruction of Vulcan, which I really thought would be the bigger of the two.

It's 'convenient' that he gets promoted. But to start listing the 'conveniences' in Trek is a long road.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:46 AM
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I don't buy the 'Abrams didn't care' line. Never did. No-one has been able to convince me yet on that line of criticism.

And I don't think that Kirk's ascendancy through the ranks is the dealbreaker some try and argue it as either. Although curiously it seems to appear more than the destruction of Vulcan, which I really thought would be the bigger of the two.

It's 'convenient' that he gets promoted. But to start listing the 'conveniences' in Trek is a long road.
I don't buy that either. I think the people involved with all the various Trek movies cared.

As to the promotions thing, it's not a fatal flaw. As you know, I enjoyed the new film very much. Horatio asked me for examples of flaws in the new film, so I listed a few that are in my opinion. You can do that with almost any movie. I think the overall product was fantastic. I watched it again just the other day and still enjoyed it very much. It's a fun movie.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:48 AM
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And as far as the destruction of Vulcan, I know a lot of people hated that. I didn't. I kind of liked that they were willing to take risks like that. I hope they do in the next film, too. I've even advocated killing off one of the cast in the past.
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:56 PM
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Yes, I do think it unlikely that they would go that route. But, I think most people would have thought that they wouldn't destroy the planet Vulcan before '09 either.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
I don't buy that either. I think the people involved with all the various Trek movies cared.

As to the promotions thing, it's not a fatal flaw. As you know, I enjoyed the new film very much. Horatio asked me for examples of flaws in the new film, so I listed a few that are in my opinion. You can do that with almost any movie. I think the overall product was fantastic. I watched it again just the other day and still enjoyed it very much. It's a fun movie.
Yeah, that's what I was meaning - you didn't like that at all but it doesn't sink the film for you. I don't mind it as much and I have my rationale why but that's irrelevant. So, it's a problem but not one that means you can't enjoy it.
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