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  #21  
Old 09-02-2011, 06:12 AM
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You may have just talked me into cancelling as well. Too bad, because I really wanted the archival material on the bonus discs. For that, I had pre-ordered the full 6-movie edition even though I don't really care to buy the prequels again.

[EDIT]: This might be the cheaper option. As long as there's two discs per movie, you should be safe.
I'm normally not an advocate of piracy, but in this case save your money and download the bonus material. Good call on that trilogy set. For some reason I thought that was just a rerelease of the 2004 box set with out the bonus disc. I didn't realize the original cuts were included.

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I didn't realize the original trilogy was already out of print on DVD. And yet the prequels are not? What the hell?
Well when the original cuts were released on DVD they did say "Limited Edition" on the top of the packaging. Plus Mr. Lucas wants everyone to buy his new "Special, Special, Special Edition" Blu-ray Saga Set.

On another note, check this out:
The People vs. George Lucas
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  #22  
Old 09-02-2011, 07:24 AM
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I completely agree. I think this is his worst change yet, not to mention his most pointless. I still can't see it.
My own immediate thought (before I even saw the altered footage) was that the ONLY thing I could think of was to tie it into the 'Nooooooo' that Vader cried at the end of Revenge of the Sith. Kinda of like trying to make another link between them.

Which was cheesy even in that film as well.

I haven't been able to come up with anything else as a reason.

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[EDIT]: This might be the cheaper option. As long as there's two discs per movie, you should be safe.
I had a look at that, but I couldn't tell if it also included 'Empire of Dreams' documentary which was a bonus disc in the 2004 Original Trilogy DVD boxset, but which comes in a different style of box.

Actually the revisions up to and including the 2004 versions don't bother me, so it's sorta a toss up between them.

I was more adamant yesterday about the originals out of annoyance - plus in looking it up I believe the transfers were not anything well done. Like Lucas just slapped them on with no work as a sort of 'Here you go, I'm not doing anything to them' anymore sorta way.

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I didn't realize the original trilogy was already out of print on DVD. And yet the prequels are not? What the hell?
I don't know about the US, but in the UK I noticed that some of the Region 2 individual purchase options were seemingly deleted in anticipation of the Blu-ray release.

You know................gotta delete before each re-release!
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  #23  
Old 09-02-2011, 07:31 AM
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Yeah, that's starting to crop up a lot now.

The tinkering is fine (to a degree) but I think it's his obsession (or seeming obsession) to lock away the actual originals as if they never existed for the twenty years that they did.

You know, the twenty years where everyone who fell in love with them did so and didn't need to see revisions to a CGI Yoda!

Why not just do what they did with Blade Runner.

I have the deluxe Region 2 DVD boxset of that - the one with all five major known edits of the film provided to choose for yourself which one to watch. I heard there are actually a couple more on top of that...............but I don't know if that's true because that would make 7 versions.

If he did that, he would probably get a lot less aggro.
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  #24  
Old 09-02-2011, 09:44 AM
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Yeah, that's starting to crop up a lot now.

The tinkering is fine (to a degree) but I think it's his obsession (or seeming obsession) to lock away the actual originals as if they never existed for the twenty years that they did.

You know, the twenty years where everyone who fell in love with them did so and didn't need to see revisions to a CGI Yoda!

Why not just do what they did with Blade Runner.

I have the deluxe Region 2 DVD boxset of that - the one with all five major known edits of the film provided to choose for yourself which one to watch. I heard there are actually a couple more on top of that...............but I don't know if that's true because that would make 7 versions.

If he did that, he would probably get a lot less aggro.
Yeah, I have the complete Blade Runner works on Blu-Ray as well. It's a nice set, being able to see all the major (or minor) differences between the cuts. (I also have a similar set for Close Encounters of the Third Kind.)

Lucas is wanting to push the notion that whatever tinkerings he makes leads only to his "definitive" vision of Star Wars.

Remember, even though the original versions were blockbusters, the original version of Star Wars was only a fraction of what he envisioned because Fox would only lend him so much money to make the film. By today's standards, Star Wars in '77 is an extremely low budget film. ($10M to make, IIRC).

I don't mind that he makes his Star Wars movies "shiny, pretty" to match what he had in mind back then.....just don't change the story, or the actors' lines. Just make the movie "shiny, pretty".
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  #25  
Old 09-02-2011, 10:05 AM
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My own immediate thought (before I even saw the altered footage) was that the ONLY thing I could think of was to tie it into the 'Nooooooo' that Vader cried at the end of Revenge of the Sith. Kinda of like trying to make another link between them.

Which was cheesy even in that film as well.

I haven't been able to come up with anything else as a reason.
That is the only reason. As you said it was cheesy as hell the first time. It is even worse this time because it ruins such a great scene where you can almost see Vader's internal struggle but nothing needs to be said and it makes it cheesy with this stupid "Nooooooooo."

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I had a look at that, but I couldn't tell if it also included 'Empire of Dreams' documentary which was a bonus disc in the 2004 Original Trilogy DVD boxset, but which comes in a different style of box.
The "Empire of Dreams" documentary is not included in that box set because it was on the 4th disc in the original 2004 box set and that 4th disc is not included.

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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
Actually the revisions up to and including the 2004 versions don't bother me, so it's sorta a toss up between them

I was more adamant yesterday about the originals out of annoyance - plus in looking it up I believe the transfers were not anything well done. Like Lucas just slapped them on with no work as a sort of 'Here you go, I'm not doing anything to them' anymore sorta way.
I said yesterday that the original cuts were released with inferior picture/sound quality on DVD. There is only stereo sound and the negatives weren't cleaned up like the "Special, Special Edition." George probably just released them so people would get off his back about him holding them hostage in the vault but he still gave us an inferior product. People have nothing against doing a restoration so the picture quality is 1080p or upping the sound to 5.1 at least if not 7.1. I don’t mind a lot of the small changes like the words "Tractor Beam" being changed to Huttese in Episode IV but the reason the "Han Shooting First" thing really bothers me is it changes the character of Han Solo. Try to image you have never seen Star Wars (I know it's not easy). You get to the Cantina scene and this dude who you know nothing about really blows away this alien because he is looking to collect some money. He could have possible paid Greedo off or negotiated his way out of the situation but instead he blows him away and then throws the bartender some cash to clean up the mess, that's bad a$$. It also leads the viewer to believe maybe this guy will dump the old man and the kid if he runs in to problems, who knows? Part of Han's character arch is that he is a bad guy that turns out better due to his adventure with Luke, Leia and the rebellion. The next one that bugs me is Hayden Christensen showing up at the end of ROTJ (I feel Hayden gets bad mouthed far too much for messing up Vader when it is Lucas and his crap dialog and crap directing that is to be blamed for that). Luke should be like, "Who the hell is that guy?" He never knew his father and only saw him for the first time when he took the helmet off. I didn't mind them changing Sebastian Shaw's eye colour to match Hayden's it's a small touch to make things fall together nicer but what I never understood was why Lucas thought it was better to replace Boba Fett's voice in the original trilogy with Temuera Morrison's. Why didn't he get Jeremy Bulloch to dub over Temuera Morrison's lines in Episodes II & III? It would make more sense wouldn't it? The list goes on.

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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
I don't know about the US, but in the UK I noticed that some of the Region 2 individual purchase options were seemingly deleted in anticipation of the Blu-ray release.

You know................gotta delete before each re-release!
Surprisingly in Canada Amazon.ca still has copies and I have seen them in several stores Best Buy, HMV, ect.

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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
Yeah, that's starting to crop up a lot now.

The tinkering is fine (to a degree) but I think it's his obsession (or seeming obsession) to lock away the actual originals as if they never existed for the twenty years that they did.

You know, the twenty years where everyone who fell in love with them did so and didn't need to see revisions to a CGI Yoda!

Why not just do what they did with Blade Runner.

I have the deluxe Region 2 DVD boxset of that - the one with all five major known edits of the film provided to choose for yourself which one to watch. I heard there are actually a couple more on top of that...............but I don't know if that's true because that would make 7 versions.

If he did that, he would probably get a lot less aggro.
I agree 100%. If Lucas just released every version of the films people wouldn't be so pissed. No one made a stink about Star Trek Remastered. They were very picky about what they changed. They didn't go changing the characters or the stories just esthetic things. They also give you both the original and the remastered version on the blu-ray sets, the best of both worlds. Lucas is just a hypocrite with to much power. Ironically he has become the emperor. Nobody is willing to tell him at Lucas Film "George this is stupid." Everyone just says "Yes, sir." Oh, by the way I just found a clip of the latest change to the final battle between Vader and Luke in ESB. I actually like this change, check it out.
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  #26  
Old 09-02-2011, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by kevin View Post
My own immediate thought (before I even saw the altered footage) was that the ONLY thing I could think of was to tie it into the 'Nooooooo' that Vader cried at the end of Revenge of the Sith. Kinda of like trying to make another link between them. Which was cheesy even in that film as well. I haven't been able to come up with anything else as a reason.
It seems that's it. I wouldn't have thought it was a strong enough reason; surely even Lucas would recognize by now that Vader's scream was one of the more laughable moments in the prequel trilogy. Plus he was smart enough to remove Luke's scream from the 2004 version of Empire. So I'm a little disappointed to have overestimated him after that.

Quote:
I had a look at that, but I couldn't tell if it also included 'Empire of Dreams' documentary which was a bonus disc in the 2004 Original Trilogy DVD boxset, but which comes in a different style of box.

Actually the revisions up to and including the 2004 versions don't bother me, so it's sorta a toss up between them.

I was more adamant yesterday about the originals out of annoyance - plus in looking it up I believe the transfers were not anything well done. Like Lucas just slapped them on with no work as a sort of 'Here you go, I'm not doing anything to them' anymore sorta way.

I don't know about the US, but in the UK I noticed that some of the Region 2 individual purchase options were seemingly deleted in anticipation of the Blu-ray release.
Basically there was (A): a 2004 boxset, with a bonus disc containing the documentary you described, for a total of 4 discs. Each in its own keepcase. This is the only set that includes the bonus documentary disc.

(B): A 2005 boxset minus the bonus disc, for a slightly cheaper buying option. There wouldn't be any point in owning this one.

(C): Individual 2006 double-disc releases for all three films. The first disc being a re-pressing from the 2004 release, the second disc containing the original version of the movie advertised as a DVD 'extra'.

(D): A 2008 boxset for each trilogy. Since the 'prequel' films were already 2-disc editions to begin with (now repackaged into a 6-disc boxset), Lucas saw fit to again include the original version discs for the original trilogy.

Thus, in order to have 'everything' (bonus 'empire of dreams' disc AND original edition trilogy), it was necessary to buy no less than TWO copies of the 2004 version. The initial boxset, plus either one of the last two releases.

(I have bought every release except the 2008 boxset. I got suckered into buying the 2005 box on the hope that they would fix a Region 1 authoring glitch in Empire that caused BOTH of my players -at that time- to skip backward just after the opening titles. But they never did. Fortunately my BluRay player is not sensitive to the glitch).

Looking at your Amazon Kevin, I get the impression the prequel DVDs are also out of print. I guess it's just taking longer for leftover stock to sell out here in the US. The prequels just aren't as much in demand.

The original edition DVDs: basically, they are the 1993 Ultimate Edition laserdisc (considered to be the best home video version of that time) authored onto a DVD. Video is letterbox widescreen (non-anamorphic), and audio is basic 2-channel stereo. That said, the quality is actually quite good for what it is. As an added bonus, the opening title of Star Wars is the pre-1981 version, *without* the alternative 'Episode IV' title in the crawl.

Quote:
The tinkering is fine (to a degree) but I think it's his obsession (or seeming obsession) to lock away the actual originals as if they never existed for the twenty years that they did.

You know, the twenty years where everyone who fell in love with them did so and didn't need to see revisions to a CGI Yoda!

Why not just do what they did with Blade Runner.

I have the deluxe Region 2 DVD boxset of that - the one with all five major known edits of the film provided to choose for yourself which one to watch. I heard there are actually a couple more on top of that...............but I don't know if that's true because that would make 7 versions.

If he did that, he would probably get a lot less aggro.
Oh God. I bought the Blade Runner set on DVD in 2008, and then BluRay last year, and I still have yet to make it through all five versions of the film. Will be selling my DVD set once I've checked all the discs for defects! And then the Alien Quadrilogy/ Anthology/ whatever is a whole other monster.

Considering there are now (or should I saw have been) no less than eleven versions of SW, and seven of Empire, I think such a home video project would be tricky at best. I think realistically, you would settle for having just the 'first' and 'final' versions of each film released together (and by 'first', you would actually be combining the best audio/visual elements of every pre-1997 release available, much as the Ultimate Edition laserdisc did).

The first thing that would need to happen, would be establishing once and for all what is the actual, physical, state of the original edition. Is it spliced to pieces? If so, was the restoration work done before or after splicing? If no unspliced negatives exist, would remastering from a decent quality 'positive' print be a viable option? In almost any other film but SW, saving all of your negatives would be a bloody no-brainer. But with Lucas, there's no strait answer. "The original trilogy doesn't exist anymore." Someone get him to elaborate next time he says that.
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  #27  
Old 09-02-2011, 10:35 AM
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Oh, by the way I just found a clip of the latest change to the final battle between Vader and Luke in ESB. I actually like this change, check it out.
Dude! I'm so going to facebook that. "BluRay is overrated."
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  #28  
Old 09-02-2011, 06:10 PM
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It seems that's it. I wouldn't have thought it was a strong enough reason; surely even Lucas would recognize by now that Vader's scream was one of the more laughable moments in the prequel trilogy. Plus he was smart enough to remove Luke's scream from the 2004 version of Empire. So I'm a little disappointed to have overestimated him after that.

Basically there was (A): a 2004 boxset, with a bonus disc containing the documentary you described, for a total of 4 discs. Each in its own keepcase. This is the only set that includes the bonus documentary disc.

(B): A 2005 boxset minus the bonus disc, for a slightly cheaper buying option. There wouldn't be any point in owning this one.

(C): Individual 2006 double-disc releases for all three films. The first disc being a re-pressing from the 2004 release, the second disc containing the original version of the movie advertised as a DVD 'extra'.

(D): A 2008 boxset for each trilogy. Since the 'prequel' films were already 2-disc editions to begin with (now repackaged into a 6-disc boxset), Lucas saw fit to again include the original version discs for the original trilogy.

Thus, in order to have 'everything' (bonus 'empire of dreams' disc AND original edition trilogy), it was necessary to buy no less than TWO copies of the 2004 version. The initial boxset, plus either one of the last two releases.

(I have bought every release except the 2008 boxset. I got suckered into buying the 2005 box on the hope that they would fix a Region 1 authoring glitch in Empire that caused BOTH of my players -at that time- to skip backward just after the opening titles. But they never did. Fortunately my BluRay player is not sensitive to the glitch).

Looking at your Amazon Kevin, I get the impression the prequel DVDs are also out of print. I guess it's just taking longer for leftover stock to sell out here in the US. The prequels just aren't as much in demand.

The original edition DVDs: basically, they are the 1993 Ultimate Edition laserdisc (considered to be the best home video version of that time) authored onto a DVD. Video is letterbox widescreen (non-anamorphic), and audio is basic 2-channel stereo. That said, the quality is actually quite good for what it is. As an added bonus, the opening title of Star Wars is the pre-1981 version, *without* the alternative 'Episode IV' title in the crawl.

Oh God. I bought the Blade Runner set on DVD in 2008, and then BluRay last year, and I still have yet to make it through all five versions of the film. Will be selling my DVD set once I've checked all the discs for defects! And then the Alien Quadrilogy/ Anthology/ whatever is a whole other monster.

Considering there are now (or should I saw have been) no less than eleven versions of SW, and seven of Empire, I think such a home video project would be tricky at best. I think realistically, you would settle for having just the 'first' and 'final' versions of each film released together (and by 'first', you would actually be combining the best audio/visual elements of every pre-1997 release available, much as the Ultimate Edition laserdisc did).

The first thing that would need to happen, would be establishing once and for all what is the actual, physical, state of the original edition. Is it spliced to pieces? If so, was the restoration work done before or after splicing? If no unspliced negatives exist, would remastering from a decent quality 'positive' print be a viable option? In almost any other film but SW, saving all of your negatives would be a bloody no-brainer. But with Lucas, there's no strait answer. "The original trilogy doesn't exist anymore." Someone get him to elaborate next time he says that.

ALIEN ANTHOLOGY rocks!
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  #29  
Old 09-03-2011, 12:47 AM
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Basically there was (A): a 2004 boxset, with a bonus disc containing the documentary you described, for a total of 4 discs. Each in its own keepcase. This is the only set that includes the bonus documentary disc.
I was mulling it over and I decided to shop around for this version.

Quote:
Thus, in order to have 'everything' (bonus 'empire of dreams' disc AND original edition trilogy), it was necessary to buy no less than TWO copies of the 2004 version. The initial boxset, plus either one of the last two releases.
Yeah, it would seem that way, but I think after a couple days thought I'm probably unwilling to buy all of that since I can live with the 2004 versions just fine anyway.

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Oh God. I bought the Blade Runner set on DVD in 2008, and then BluRay last year, and I still have yet to make it through all five versions of the film. Will be selling my DVD set once I've checked all the discs for defects! And then the Alien Quadrilogy/ Anthology/ whatever is a whole other monster.
I managed to find the Blade Runner set for £6 last year as a small retail chain was selling off their remaining stocks of the tin box edition.

But I'd be lying if I said I had gone through all the versions myself. But I do like the fact they are there when the mood does take me some day to explore it all fully.

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"The original trilogy doesn't exist anymore." Someone get him to elaborate next time he says that.
I tend to just think that comes back to him not wanting to talk about them anymore.

But I think he's lost perspective now on them. He can change them whenever he wants now and no-one will ever say 'Stop'.

And most of the public will keep buying them, giving him less incentive to operate any differently to how he's been going since 1997.
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Last edited by kevin : 09-03-2011 at 12:50 AM.
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  #30  
Old 09-03-2011, 12:50 AM
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ALIEN ANTHOLOGY rocks!
I keep looking at the Blu-ray for Alien Anthology.................and it's very nicely packaged, but I've always resisted buying it because I only actually bother with Alien and Aliens and I have the special edition DVD editions from about 7 years back which look just fine and have decent extras.

I tune out Alien 3 and Alien: Resurrection myself so there would be no point spending money when I only want half the films in the set.
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