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  #21  
Old 03-20-2008, 10:28 AM
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RedAlertRiker RedAlertRiker is offline
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up untill the late 1960 man refered only to men, before the 20th century, men refered only to white men, before the 19th century men refered only to land owning white men.

taking into concideration the history and entemology of our language assuming that the word MAN refers to both sexes is idealistic at best. and delusional at worst. Man does not refer to both genders, not in the definition of the word, or the way the word has been used in english for the last few hundred years.

you can WANT it to mean both, but it doesnt.

using gender specific language isnt wrong just because its rude, its also grammaticly incorrect according to the style and usage guide to grammer, which is the standard at my college.

im not saying its right or wrong, i call everyone man, and dude and guys like that doesnt bother me, im just talking about usage and grammer and definitions. man does not mean humans it just doesnt!
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2008, 10:30 AM
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RedAlert-

So, I just said your are a nice *bleep*? Why am I getting bleeped when I try to refer to you as a *bleep*? So as a person you are neither considered a male or a *bleep*.

LOL
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  #23  
Old 03-20-2008, 03:21 PM
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The "man" version refers specifically to Humans, because Humans are the majority in Starfleet. It's not sexist in any way.

It's not something to obsess about. I always assumed that it was to be inclusive to other SPECIES. It's not really that important. Women are equal to men, there is no more sexism in the 23rd Century.
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2008, 03:25 PM
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"Man" sounds better than "One"

They were wrong to change it in TNG.
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  #25  
Old 03-20-2008, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HRH The KING View Post
"Man" sounds better than "One"

They were wrong to change it in TNG.
I concur.
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  #26  
Old 03-20-2008, 03:42 PM
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Now we finally reached the greatest hights of political correctness, dont we .

But agreed, somehow the question has its phaszination.

If I would make the film I would stick with man for sole canonicity. But I couldnt care less wether they go with the one instead.

The reason is, that language is a historical thing. I know that women where not seen as the representators of the "real" human species for most of humanities history. There is a reason why God is seen as a man.
Now, as in language ranks are also a historical thing. Should we call the Midshipman a Midshipone or Midshiphuman now? Or skip that traditional rank entirely.
This debate was very important for feminism in the sixties and seventies and it was good that the debate was lead, but more for making society aware of its focus on men in all important areas of life. Here in germany this debate gets more absurd because we have a special ending for female jobs (-in). So we have a male teacher (Lehrer) and a female (Lehrerin). We have male doctors (Arzt) and females (Ärtztin) while the academic grade (Doktor) has no female form. Femenists demanded a Doktorin.
Next stage was, that when adressing all the doctors in the hospital it was seen political correct to write Doktoren/Doktorinnen or worse: DoktorINNEN (with big letters).

Now, you perhaps understand, why I find that debate to be more of a PR-gimmick. It surves the purpose to make people think about it. And thats it.

The best approach, I think is to just teach our kids to also imagine female doctors and teachers. And by this the term man in the context of the famous line would of course include women.

[Data, on stage toasting Will and Deanna]
Data: Ladies and gentlemen and invited transgender species...

Last edited by Botany Bay : 03-20-2008 at 03:51 PM.
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  #27  
Old 03-20-2008, 03:49 PM
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To keep the TOS tradition i'll stay with "man"

If it were a TNG reboot...
I think they (TNG) were right to change it. What about the women and the alien lifeforms in Starfleet?
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  #28  
Old 03-20-2008, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ready Room View Post
To keep the TOS tradition i'll stay with "man"

If it were a TNG reboot...
I think they (TNG) were right to change it. What about the women and the alien lifeforms in Starfleet?

The idea was that it was supposed to be an historical quote by Zefram Cochrane. We don't change Armstrong's moon landing remarks te be PC, do we? Maybe we should!

"One small step for [a] man, one giant leap for mankind."
What do you suppose we change it to?
"One small step for a person, one giant leap for humanity."

There, isn't that better? [Sarcasm.]
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  #29  
Old 03-20-2008, 04:18 PM
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OH MAN! I need an aspirin.
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  #30  
Old 03-20-2008, 04:32 PM
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NCC-73515 NCC-73515 is offline
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I already stated that in the other thread about Pine's last words...
It is WRONG to say that they are going where no ONE has gone before, because some aliens have already been there (otherwise it wouldn't make any sense to seek out new life there)
So for being correct, it has to be "man" or "human". Since the Federation also has other members, even that would not be exactly correct, but still better than the lie of "no one"
What about "Where WE haven't gone before?"
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