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  #111  
Old 08-14-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
Even in some TOS episodes like Tribbles, Kirk is a swaggering cocky guy. The fact is, Kirk's character has been all over the spectrum depending on which episode or film you are watching.

Is he the serious intellectual bookworm? Depends on the episode or film
The swaggering, pompous blowhard? Depends on teh episode or film

There is no one template. There's been lots of different takes on the character. And that's just in TOS
There's maybe a fine line between cockiness and arrogance depending on how you take it. One thing Kirk has never lacked is front and confidence, however the idea of him as a bookworm is as selective as him screwing everything that moves.

Which he probably did as well...............but..............that's a different point!
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  #112  
Old 08-14-2011, 12:43 PM
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Which is why it doesn't bother me in the reboot that they focused more on certain ascpests of his personality. And it's not like there wasn't method to his madness. He wasn't trying to get away with anything in the test, he was protesting the test.
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  #113  
Old 08-14-2011, 12:53 PM
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Shatner often played Kirk in a slightly stylized fashion. At least to me it seems as if Kirk's arrogance and flirtaciousness aren't at the core of his personality. I always have this Wilde line in mind when I think about Kirk: "In matters of grave importance style and not sincerity is the vital thing."
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  #114  
Old 08-14-2011, 12:56 PM
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Perhaps not at the core, but certainly a part of him.

And in the new film, Kirk is learning how to temper that part of him. It's part of the coming of age angle of the film.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:21 PM
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Sure, it's nice to see how he has learned something from Spock at the end and the "Kobayashi Maru" theme is beautifully woven into the story.
But the test scene is a bit over the top for my taste and I would have liked to see more facets of Kirk's personality, e.g. a moment of insecurity. After all we know that he was paralyzed by fear to not fill his father's shoes and that he is partly arrogant in order to deal with his self-doubts so why not delve a bit into this.
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  #116  
Old 08-14-2011, 02:19 PM
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I think there is a little bit of that in the film when he takes over the centre seat after returning to the ship.

He can't really show his own insecurity (he's just stepped up to take command of the ship after all) but Uhura is the one to make it clear she isn't convinced of him. As she says 'I hope you know what your doing, Captain' with that emphasis on 'Captain' after her dim view of his conduct in the KM.

His reply to her does imply he knows she knows he has some internal issues about whether he's done the right thing by taking over.
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  #117  
Old 08-15-2011, 07:37 AM
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A little bit of self-doubt creeps across his face on several occasions too. For all the movie's flaws, the main performances were very nuanced.
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  #118  
Old 08-15-2011, 07:53 AM
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I also disliked the police officer. On the one hand he calls Kirk citizen, surely a bit uber-polite after a theft, on the other hand he wears a helmet. Seems a bit schizophrenic and doesn't really help to establish Earth as a decent place. Intercut the Earth scenes of the movie with anything cyberpunk and you wouldn't notice much of a difference.
To return for a moment to this, as I watch TSFS just now I had a couple of thoughts sparked in my head by that film and it suddenly occurred to me there's still likely to be some requirement for the maintenance of law and order even on this future Earth.

Starships have brigs and those brigs get used, and in TSFS when Federation Security arrests McCoy at the bar (we can safely assume he was arrested because he is described as a 'prisoner' in dialogue stated clearly by the security officer) they have a facility to take him to. The term 'prisoner' obviously hasn't fallen out of use.

Add this into the existence later in the 24th C of the New Zealand penal settlement that we found Tom Paris doing hard labour in..................and it seems to certainly imply that crime itself may still exist and they have the need to have somewhere to put people who still fall foul of whatever laws exist on Earth.

It may not be a stretch to imagine the existence of a Police Force on the planet still in the 23rd Century (even Harry Mudd has a 'Police Record' in 'Mudd's Women' though whose Police they are is not stated) and beyond, although whether it would solely be the responsibility of Federation Security to patrol everything from the backwaters of Iowa to the Hall of the Federation Council and Starfleet Starships, or whether there would be the equivalent of local law enforcement in place to deal with ordinary citizens of Earth who break the rules.

Personally, I attributed his costuming to possibly being some sort of protective device to protect his face from all that flying dust and debris when he's riding his little flying bike at high speeds!!!
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Last edited by kevin : 08-15-2011 at 08:17 AM.
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  #119  
Old 08-15-2011, 08:22 AM
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Which kind of cop do you prefer?






Of course there has to be law enforcement. Trek plays on military vessels, it has never implied that there is something wrong with discipline, law and order.

But guess what, in my country a lack of identification marks and duty plus face-masking is a catalyst for police violence.
This guy or robot with a mask is even worse ... which I wouldn't mind if this were cyberpunk but it's not. It's Trek so get the fascistoid cop out of there. Or make him f**k up somebody really bad in order that we know that we are not in Kansas anymore.

I don't mind DarkTrek, not in the least. But I cannot stand moviemakers who are indifferent about these issues.
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  #120  
Old 08-15-2011, 08:30 AM
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Yes, and those happy smiley coppers that are delighted to pose for holiday snaps will turn on you in a second if you tried to steal from that nice ladies pocket, whether you can immediately see their faces or not.

Because guess what, Police aren't always fuzzy and friendly because it's not their job to be - especially when they are pursuing someone whose violated a law.

They're on duty and they are equipped as such. Would you want to spend all day flying through the air in a dustbowl town with nothing covering your face as you skoot about at 80mph? I sure as hell wouldn't. My skin is precious!! And I'm worth it!

I would perhaps surmise that the numbers on his suit also identify him (possibly analogously to real world police who wear identification badge numbers) for the purposes of law enforcement. Although, I have to confess, I'm personally unconvinced of the cyberpunk argument.....................not when I run through the types of cinema and films that normally are categorised as cyberpunk.
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Last edited by kevin : 08-15-2011 at 08:41 AM.
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