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  #21  
Old 07-24-2011, 01:41 PM
I-Am-Zim I-Am-Zim is offline
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Ah, OK, I didn't know that. If NuTrek is the Twilight version of Star Trek then perhaps the best way to deal with it is close your eyes and pretend that it doesn't exist.
At least that's what I am gonna do next summer.

Yep. Me too.
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  #22  
Old 07-24-2011, 03:03 PM
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Nah. Can't do that. Names like "Abramsprise" and "Akiraprise" are meant to be negative. Most fans don't have much negative to say about the Enterprises from the original universe. Just the fuglyprise abomination from jj-trek.
There seems to be a contradiction in there, because if 'most fans' don't have much negative to say about the Enterprise's from the original universe, then the term 'Akiraprise' wouldn't really be so widely employed and known about as an aforementioned derogatory term.........used about an Enterprise in the original timeline.

So it's obviously not 'just' the Enterprise from the Alternate that fans get derogatory about.
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  #23  
Old 07-29-2011, 02:44 AM
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That's why the NX was called the Akiraprise.
The designer found an Akira model in the trash and though it was never used, so he based his NX design on a 24th century ship.

Well according to sources...Berman actually gave the direction to use a likeness of the Akira and that's how that mess ended up.

Berman tends to make dumb decisions like this and he wonders why he got criticized so badly.

He lays off Ron Jones as composer because his music was TOO DISTRACTING, saying that he felt the music should be more background and not noticeable.

He commissions the use of ship not just in semblance but a near identical imitation of the Akira and didn't expect the fans to call foul on the lack of originality.

(shrug)
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  #24  
Old 07-29-2011, 01:17 PM
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The thing is, I'm not entirely sure the fans have any more originality in them.

The response to that Calendar NX refit image (which essentially just added back a secondary hull, to make it look 'right' in their eyes) indicates that if the fans are getting an Enterprise as often as not they just want their saucer, hull, two nacelles configuration on a basic level. As soon as the NX had that, it was suddenly so much better.

That's really no more original.
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  #25  
Old 07-29-2011, 02:37 PM
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Well according to sources...Berman actually gave the direction to use a likeness of the Akira and that's how that mess ended up.

Berman tends to make dumb decisions like this and he wonders why he got criticized so badly.

He lays off Ron Jones as composer because his music was TOO DISTRACTING, saying that he felt the music should be more background and not noticeable.

He commissions the use of ship not just in semblance but a near identical imitation of the Akira and didn't expect the fans to call foul on the lack of originality.

(shrug)
I absolutely agree, especially about Ron Jones.
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  #26  
Old 07-30-2011, 03:18 AM
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The thing is, I'm not entirely sure the fans have any more originality in them.

The response to that Calendar NX refit image (which essentially just added back a secondary hull, to make it look 'right' in their eyes) indicates that if the fans are getting an Enterprise as often as not they just want their saucer, hull, two nacelles configuration on a basic level. As soon as the NX had that, it was suddenly so much better.

That's really no more original.
While I don't belong to the Akiraprise fraction (none of these guys can convince me that they have consciously noted a ships that appeared a few times in the background) I don't consider the NX to be an outstanding design.

But just like the Ambassador nicely fits between the Excelsior and the D the NX can be viewed as a natural progression of the Phoenix and a predecessor of the 1701. Let's also not forget the other ships of this area like the halfsaucer design which would have been impossible if the NX had just been a 1701 clone.

The extension with the secondary hull, while being as you pointed out total fanwank, doesn't make the ship more beautiful and makes little sense from a fictional historical perspective. Last time I checked they mothballed the NX class after the first Federation design, the Daedalus, left the drydocks.

It's nice, I always like it when designer play with ships a bit but it's not superior to the original.

So yeah, the "if it looked just more like the NCC-1701" argument is indeed anything but original and I am glad that neither of these ideas materialized.


Last edited by horatio : 07-30-2011 at 03:25 AM.
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  #27  
Old 07-30-2011, 03:42 AM
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I think yeah, the evolution of the ship from NX-01 (I don't hate the design, I don't love it, but it works from the logical standpoint of it needing to be smaller and more compact, leading into the larger ships later) through to the E is fine (and while personally the B and C re my least favourite, particularly the C) and they do fit the general lineage design-wise.
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  #28  
Old 07-30-2011, 03:55 AM
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I think it is important to always ask oneself whether there is a dramatic idea embedded into a ship design, independent of whether one likes a ship or not. For example the new Enterprise has a youthful, dynamic quality and the Defiant looks like the small, crammed and overpowered warship it is meant to be.
Design lineage might not explicitly serve any dramatic purposes but it helps to give the viewers a sense of feeling at home in the fictional history of Trek. "First Flight" with its NX prototypes would have been hard to do if the NX had looked like the NCC-1701 and not resembled the Phoenix in any way.

The general critique that shines through the Akiraprise argument, namely that the show was anchored more in the 24th than the 23rd century, is valid.
But let's also not forget that the direction of the last season, anchoring the show too tightly in the 23rd century, falls under your lack of originality critique.

Instead of playing this 23rd vs. 24th century game like the Akiraprise fraction does we could simply ask when the show was good. In my opinion it sucked when the story felt like a leftover from VOY or when Khan, Soong and Klingons were in the spotlight and worked when it dealt with 22nd century issues which was sadly too rarely the case. As you pointed out we fans are partly to blame for this lack of originality and innovation in Trek.

Last edited by horatio : 07-30-2011 at 04:05 AM.
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  #29  
Old 07-30-2011, 04:35 AM
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I would probably agree with that first paragraph.

That said, sometimes retrospectively I would have been interested in seeing the submarine idea (which the NX-01 interiors echoed anyway) for the ship design, because that's probably even more likely than the saucer design............but...........the saucer being present in the NX is the major marker that links it as the early stage in the process that led to the E.

I don't think stuff like not liking the Enterprise and how it looks on a given day is in and of itself necessarily a good reason to dislike an entire show (similarly say, lens flares, in Abrams' film) because there are more inportant aspects to discuss around each.

So, yeah, primarily I'd rather talk about TCW or something like that instead, but I can talk about the design elements as well when that rolls around.
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  #30  
Old 07-30-2011, 12:37 PM
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none of these guys can convince me that they have consciously noted a ships that appeared a few times in the background
I first saw this class in the Encyclopedia and Starship Creator software. She was a major part of the battle in First Contact as well. I thought every fan analyzed this scene frame by frame ;P
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