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  #11  
Old 03-18-2008, 07:25 AM
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Yes Chirs, anger has many faces.

But when people started attcking member of our own forum for just being themselves, it angered me, and horrified me.
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2008, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zardoz View Post
Ty Sir, TYVM!

Well it is Zardoz (literally) the floating Godhead!

Her's the link to read about the movie Zardoz.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070948/
Man, that looks cool, I gotta see that! I'm a big fan of Connery. You ever see The Man Who Would Be King? Good movie!
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2008, 07:30 AM
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I didn't read that far. Disgusting if it is true.
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2008, 07:48 AM
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Great thread. Z, if they were giving awards for best thread starter, it'd be yours hands down.

There are people from all walks of life all over the world who love Star Trek and, unfortunately, not everyone is enlightened. (I don't just speak of the United States, I speak of people all over the planet since Star Trek is popular world wide.)

I also think there's a vast difference between "hate" and "intolerance." I haven't seen any hate-filled rants on this board. I've seen some intolerance, sure, but I think the phrase "hate speech" has become such a media driven term to mean anything that we disagree with that has a racial/sexual/societal tone to it.

I'm as conservative as they come and, you know what? I love gay people. I really do. I have great gay friends and my best friend on this Earth--my sister--is a lesbian. I'm like Kathy Griffin... I have "my gays" and they identify as such. It's really a riot. I don't have a problem with anyone based on the color of their skin or who they love. To me, they're just people and I couldn't care any less about the adjective that modifies the noun. (My problems with people generally start with what comes out of their mouths. LOL)

I guess there are people out there who are able to separate Star Trek's good storytelling from Roddenberry's concept of "infinite diversity." I suppose that, in its truest sense, a diversity of infinite combinations would theoretically also include those who shunned diversity. You know, much like the Framers of the Constitution were men who were smart enough to know that we had to have freedom of religion in this country--but that also meant the freedom to not worship any God because people would exist who didn't believe in it.

I don't honestly think it's about contempt for humanity. I really don't. I think it's more "nurture" than "nature" honestly.

Star Trek wasn't without its biases, though. Some humans didn't like Vulcans. The Vulcans split with the Romulans over emotion. The Andorians hated and feared EVERYONE and...well...even the iconic James T. Kirk hated Klingons and wanted them to die before he was, shall we say, enlightened.

One thing is certain, though. There will likely always be some shred of intolerance in any society. I don't have to like it, but it is a common theme be it in real life or in the world of Star Trek.

There was some good discussion.
Was there intolerance? Sure.
Was it grossly uninformed and naive? Yeah, in my opinion, it definitely was.
Did I agree with it? No. HELL no.
Was it hatred? I'm not so sold on that.

We've seen hatred in action before over history and, well...a mostly civil discussion where people disagree (regardless of how uninformed their opinion is) just isn't hatred.

It's also not just a microview of America, it's a microview of our whole world. The fault or the root cause doesn't lie in this country but with humans in general.

Maybe the Vulcans were onto something...
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2008, 07:49 AM
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Livingston-

I own most of Connery's movies, including that one. Zardoz you either like it, or hate it, no inbetween.

Chris-

Sadly it was true.
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2008, 07:56 AM
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Nice post, red shirt, very nice post! Yeah, maybe contempt for humanity is the wrong word. There is certainly a difference between hatred and intolerance. Looking back on it I have to agree, I think it was more intolerance than just hatre. I hadn't thought of it that way.
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2008, 07:59 AM
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Red-

Thanks for the props, but I didn't think this thread idea was THAt good...ROFL!!

You bring up some excellent points!

I think some people see the action/adventure of Trek, without seeing it's underlying philoophy.

But jerks come in all colors, creeds, preusaions, one of the few instances where there is no prejuidce!! LOL


But (In a rare instace of defending Kirk)alot of his bias started with the death of his son. In TOS we saw him laugh it up with the Klingons (Day of the Dove), have sly word exchange (Tribbles).

Vulcan sperationists. The "logical' ones thought that sending away the "illogical' ones was the "logical and humane" thing to do. I agree it was a bad move, but makes for good storytelling.

Is it really prejudice if, like the Andorians, you hate eveyone including your own species??? LOL

But Red-

When I saw name-calling and rude, disperaging remarks against our own forum members, that for me went beyond debate. It went into the realm of hatred/open biogtry.

Otherwise I totally agree with many of the things your have said.
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  #18  
Old 03-18-2008, 08:08 AM
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Absolutely. Personal shots are 100% out of line and there's no place for them here.

For me, though--and maybe it's just me, and if that's the case, then that's cool--name calling and some of the stuff I saw here still isn't hatred in the truest sense of the word.

Oh, and I get where you're coming from on Kirk...but he hated ALL Klingons when it was just one that killed his son--and that one got killed himself (didn't he?). If he hated one Klingon, I'd understand, but ALL of them?

Cheers...
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  #19  
Old 03-18-2008, 08:25 AM
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Red-

Well stated in your postion!!

While your feeling is perfectly valid on hatred.

I am going to say(speaking personally) it crossed the line, if you re-read alot of the heavy stuff, you might see where it does.

Well hatred of all Kilingons made for good storytelling.

Cheers to you also!

***btw can you kidnap Wynonna for me...lol...just kidding...
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  #20  
Old 03-18-2008, 08:50 AM
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agreed, besides, when it comes down to name calling, whoever's doing the name calling usually doesn't have an argument left. I've seen it on here before, haven't experienced it towards me, but where I've seen it, it's the end, nothing intelligent's going to come out of it after that point.
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