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  #31  
Old 01-27-2011, 02:53 PM
Steve Gennarelli Steve Gennarelli is offline
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I say pretentious because when the Civil War that's going on at the Eden planet had no meaning to the fans in the audience.
I only saw the movie once on a matinee showing the day it premiered and I remember a scene near the end where 2 of the civil war dudes are embracing or shaking hands and it was intended as a "awww" moment where you would wipe a tear away. But instead it came off silly and laughable.
With "Insurrection" and "Nemesis", I think the TNG cast & production team showed that they were just out of gas... Had the Original Cast been a bit younger, they could have made great Box Office and great movies forever and a day !!!
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  #32  
Old 01-27-2011, 06:26 PM
samwiseb samwiseb is offline
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I think TOS was out of gas too. After the failure of STV, they reached the point where the actors were so expensive the studio wasn't willing to spend as much money on the productions. Or even the time to make their one last good movie actually great.

However I agree that they fared better than TNG at the end.
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  #33  
Old 01-28-2011, 04:34 AM
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horatio horatio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Gennarelli View Post
I say pretentious because when the Civil War that's going on at the Eden planet had no meaning to the fans in the audience.
I only saw the movie once on a matinee showing the day it premiered and I remember a scene near the end where 2 of the civil war dudes are embracing or shaking hands and it was intended as a "awww" moment where you would wipe a tear away. But instead it came off silly and laughable.
With "Insurrection" and "Nemesis", I think the TNG cast & production team showed that they were just out of gas... Had the Original Cast been a bit younger, they could have made great Box Office and great movies forever and a day !!!
Nice that you have the unique gift to speak for other people. "Civil war dudes" only reveals that you didn't understand the movie.
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  #34  
Old 01-28-2011, 09:19 AM
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Well, I tend to think the 'twist' that the two races were the same was a relatively clumsy one and it really didn't work all that well, in terms of the real motivation it gave R'uafo (which made him look like a petulant child in tantrum) or the intended emotional deepening of the film (which didn't work out much better).

The film is a tonal mess - but even at that I would probably give it a better pass mark if only the central dilemma had even a semblance of dimension to it. As it is, it doesn't because it's too obviously 'wrong' in the first place. The rest just flows from there pretty much as anyone would expect it to.
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Last edited by kevin : 01-28-2011 at 09:22 AM.
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  #35  
Old 01-28-2011, 02:43 PM
Steve Gennarelli Steve Gennarelli is offline
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As much as I dislike the movie "ST: Insurrection", based on my one matinee showing from '98, I thought the 1st 1/2 hour or so was one of the best starts to any "Star Trek" movie.
Data as a one man fighting machine at the start of the movie, the introduction of the "Lost Horizon" planet, the Anthony Zerbe subplot were all the stuff of "Trek" magic.
But they quickly lost their footing and this pic and "Nemesis" remain the only "Trek's" I've ever seen just once while all of the other films I've seen at least a few dozen times.
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  #36  
Old 01-28-2011, 06:43 PM
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NCC-73515 NCC-73515 is offline
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How can you all disregard 'how many people does it take...'?! ;P
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  #37  
Old 01-28-2011, 10:22 PM
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Captain Tom Coughlin Captain Tom Coughlin is offline
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How can you all disregard 'how many people does it take...'?! ;P
I'm not sure what you mean by that?
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  #38  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:55 PM
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martok2112 martok2112 is offline
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Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by that?
I believe he is referring to Picard's impassioned speech to Daugherty (in Insurrection) about forced relocation of "only a few hundred people."

Something along the lines of: "How many people does it take before it does become wrong? A hundred, a thousand, a million? How many people, Admiral?!"
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  #39  
Old 01-29-2011, 12:06 AM
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And I think the answer to that can be found many times in real world history - a hell of a lot more than 600 would be the most common answer - which is why it's relatively easy not to always get all righteous and indignant with Picard when he does his pontificating. It's not really always as simple as he makes out.

Even if they had just kept it at that and not brought in the stupid 'R'uafo wants to get back at mommy and daddy' aspect then they could perhaps have made something more substantial out of that premise. Because, buried somewhere under all the poor execution there's a nugget of an idea.

Heck, even if they had stuck with the Heart of Darkness idea it could have been interesting. As it is, it's the usual hodge-podge.
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Last edited by kevin : 01-29-2011 at 12:16 AM.
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  #40  
Old 01-29-2011, 02:05 AM
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Yes, it is that simple. Cynicism is no counterargument to Picard's ethical correct behaviour.

The movie is not perfect but I don't understand why people dislike that Picard does the right thing. If the Federation behaved liked that, if it would resettle races for their own benefit than it would not be the Federation but an Empire. And despite plenty of great stories which dealt with grey areas the Federation is fundamentally good. It is not perfect, it is flawed but it is not evil.
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