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  #21  
Old 03-01-2011, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by starwarsrcks View Post
I thought the film was overall brilliant throw rants at me if you want I
don't care
I enjoyed the movie too. I did think the instant promotions were a bit much though. I felt that at the time and still do.
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  #22  
Old 03-01-2011, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by starwarsrcks View Post
I thought the film was overall brilliant throw rants at me if you want I don't care
Good. Don't care. You shouldn't care. It's absolutely not up to others whether you like something or not.

The only problem being you obviously do care..............or you wouldn't keep repeating it as many times as Zim says Fuglyprise.
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  #23  
Old 03-01-2011, 01:02 PM
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I enjoyed the movie too. I did think the instant promotions were a bit much though. I felt that at the time and still do.
I can see where that comes from, and I do kind of share it...........just not to the detriment of the film too much, but when it comes to Star Trek (as a whole entity) and suspension of disbelief.........well, it's not really the worst notion I've had to swallow down.

There is at least some mild naval historical basis for that method of advancement even if not a contemporary one.
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  #24  
Old 03-01-2011, 01:33 PM
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There are two reasons for the fast promotions, dramatic compression (the alternative being a differently structured movie with time jumps) and meritocratic hierarchy. In our world there are several reasons for the existence of second-best seniority patterns (Suppose the company wants to invests in the training of its workers but fears that they might quit. Seniority patterns, earning more tomorrow than today creates an incentives for the workers to stay with the firm. In other words, the costs for your on-the-job training are internalized via the seniority pattern.) but in Trek's dream world I very much enjoy to see first-best meritocratic patterns.
If you save the galaxy you become captain under thirty (didn't this also happens to Prime Universe Kirk who didn't save the Federation, who froze as ensign on the Farragut when the vampire cloud attacked?), if you suck you'll still be an ensign at fifty like the alternative Picard from Tapestry and if you mess up as captain you'll also soon be back to lieutenant.

Last edited by horatio : 03-01-2011 at 01:39 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-01-2011, 01:41 PM
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rapid advancement is one thing, promotion to Captain instantly out of the academy is something else.
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  #26  
Old 03-01-2011, 01:55 PM
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From cadet to captain is probably happening as frequently as single-handedly saving the Federation.
Overall to me less weird than a giant crab on an ice planet or sixties miniskirts as standard uniform when you take the dramatic and social reasons into account. We are simply too used to people getting certain jobs only after a certain amount of time.

Last edited by horatio : 03-01-2011 at 02:03 PM.
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  #27  
Old 03-01-2011, 02:05 PM
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See that's funny. I didn't mind the crab or the miniskirts all that much. It just goes to show you that no two people ever come away from a movie with the same take on it.
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  #28  
Old 03-01-2011, 02:14 PM
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I definitely agree that it is exaggerated and that an officer needs some experience as an officer to become captain. I think that circling through several departments like Chekov seems to have done during his time in TOS is a good idea.
But many things in the movie are extreme and the fast promotions kind of hang at the genocidal madman story. A more down to Earth story would have warranted more sensible promotions but after this rollercoaster ride it is in my opinion only appropriate that anything can happen, including a 'from cadet to captain' promotion.
Furthermore KirK's fast promotion fits the "dream of adolescent Kirk" touch of the flick (screwing the green chick, playing the hero, saving the galaxy, becoming captain, he gets anything he could dream of).

Last edited by horatio : 03-01-2011 at 02:19 PM.
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  #29  
Old 03-01-2011, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Tom Coughlin View Post
See that's funny. I didn't mind the crab or the miniskirts all that much. It just goes to show you that no two people ever come away from a movie with the same take on it.
Oh goodness, absolutely is that true.

I didn't mind the uniform either - it's basically just a continuation of Star Trek's long tradition of sexualising the women on the various shows as much as could be done at the given time for the titillation of the audience. You have non-existent uniforms in TOS, skin tight ones in TNG/VOY and things like lesbian S&M Kira and Empress Hoshi. Any behind the scenes guff about 'social progression' is mostly just a duck blind. It's so the male viewers can oogle and it always has been!

Mind you, I seem to remember something about the red creature - I think it's meant to actually be a primarily water dwelling creature, and the idea is that under some of the ice Kirk is on on DV there's actually water underneath it and that's the creature's normal habitat. I think that's buried somewhere in the DVD extras though.
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  #30  
Old 03-02-2011, 02:46 PM
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Great flick. Holds up well in any universe or parallel timeline. I think the dramatic choices of destroying Vulcan will lead to some exciting revelations in future movies and opens up the storyline in a multitude of ways. I hope the writers twist and turn previous lore more and more to great effect.
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Last edited by omegaman : 03-02-2011 at 02:56 PM.
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